Would you break up with your friend if you knew he/she takes bribes?
This really close friend of mine tells me the other day, he's quitting a software company job to get into a Government job which doesn't even pay him half of what he earns currently.
Why?
Because he wants to take bribes, increase his contacts and wants to earn double of what he can earn in a software job.
I was at a loss of words.
Such a good friend, such a nice human being.....then why is he playing with the future of my country?
If We cannot do anything good for the country, we should at least restrain from doing what's wrong.
Isn't it time we break off with such people, forget the personal equation and make the country's interest our priority??
It's really nice, you felt so Janaki. I don't know what I would have done. But I couldn't have that feelings which I would have if he or she wasn't chosen such path. If anybody from our home does such things what can we do? If husband likes to take bribe then what a wife should do?
That's the whole point Mohini.
We need to recognise "Corruption" as a really bad moral and social value and oppose it vehemently and look down upon it.
I choose to break up a relation that causes any harm to my country.
If my husband was cheating on me, wouldn't I have done that?
We Indians like to boast about our traditions and high moral standards to the world, but if we look at it closely, we really seem to be a society of no values!!
You're comparing taking bribes with your hubby cheating on you? Just what kind of job he's got that you are using words like "playing with the country?". Is this even a serious topic?If you think about it, a lot of Indians have been deemed sellouts even before the British invaded. If you're looking only on the bright side, the dark side won't dissapear. If you're looking only at colours and ignoring the shades of gray, then you wouldn't have an honest opinion. Try to know the other side of the story first. You cannot remove bribing. End of story. Instead of trying to overshadow the issue at hand by using certain patriotic words that is (sorry to say) futile, did you try to understand a man's perspective? Yeah, men have a lot of pressures too. You're graduated from college, get a stupid job that pays you 15k-20k. Then when you earn a decent salary of 50-80k after 5 years of work and switching to a real job in between, their parents finds a girl for him only to be compared with IIT/IIM grads who earn a lot of money and probably have a separate house and bank balance. Have you thought about the fact that if he gulps down his pride for few years, he can lead a healthy life for long years? Are you even remotely aware of the rising fuel prices, high rental/ownership of the property prices? These days in Mumbai I am seeing people breaking down balconies and including it in the room and doing illegal extensions (well- not really because they have the permission from the society usually). That's the ground reality. Why are people ignoring the ground reality and trying to cement it associating words "corruption" with "patriotism". I am sorry, but how does it even solve the problem??
What you can do is find out the reasons why people resort to bribe and work on it. I think I've said it in a thread that one of the main reasons is the red tape system we have.
Or have you thought about the fact that you're blowing it out proportion and maybe he's simply joking with you? Guys do that, ya know!
Lousy jokes apart (ah, thank u!), I think tht only whn a person is content himself wud he start thinkin of the well being of others. if u look at India, its a case of 2 many ppl chasing too few resources, so ppl will think of themselves first n only after they'r done wid providin resources fr themselves n their loved ones, will they think of others... its a fairly natural thing.. we cn all see it around us tht politics seem to b paying big.. sure the rajas n the kalmadis r in jail, but hs justice really been served?
I wudnt really blame ur friend fr his thoughts.. he's just reactin to the times.. sure, its the moral scruples tht leads us to question it.. but devoid of all the morality n the patriotism, think its a very lucrative field he's venturin out into..
I'm into IT n I hv an idea of the money i can make in bout 20 years by bein in this field but if I choose 2 b a politician, I hv no idea how much i cn make n I knw its gonna b limitless. Its just a matter of practicality n ur friend is reactin to wht is happenin around us.
But on the positive side, I also think things r brightenin up.. its nice 2 knw tht thr r ppl like u who wud take a stand aganst corruption n i think this tribe will only increase with time... its heartenin 2 knw tht thr r a lotta ppl who stand by ppl like Anna Hazare n his cause.. thr r still ppl n companies tht make a big deal bout ethics n stick to it...thr r still ppl who prefer an honest day’s wok… I truly think we r, as a nation, goin slowly but surely, forward in the rite direction...
n I cant resist not endin this note with a "Happy Independance Day to all us Amazing Indians" :)
Man seriously how much money do u need to lead a happy life?. For me a good home, good family and ample food and clothes is all i may need. Politicians amassing so much money in range of thousands of crore, wat r they gonna do of that much money? eat it?
Aah.. its nice to meet someone who says he does not want money to the tune of a few measly thousand crores... :)
I think, as Indians, we are not too used to the ostentatious display of wealth (maybe its just our culture, our upbringings or maybe the IT tax guys r just doin their jobs well), so I can see n can so relate to u on how we may not really know what to do with so much of the money... but check out a place like taxless Dubai - even after a recession, u'd probably see that thr is no such thing as a limit on luxury... I mean its freaking crazy the way money is used out there.. n tht too on the basics like ''good home, good family and ample food and clothes"... n ultimately methinks it is the quality of these factors tht add up to make that other term which serves as a benchmark for our personal well being - 'standard of living'.
I'm of the opinion that sure, money can't buy u happiness, but it can very well help in renting it... so the more, the merrier :)
No. A friendship can change behavior and sure I am one such person!
@ The sorcerer: I pity you for not seeing my point.
Cheating on a spouse is given much more importance in our country then corruption which is cheating on one's motherland! I would compare the 2, because both relate to a standard of morality and ethics.
"Is this even a serious topic?" u ask, yes...much more serious than discussing "What's my FB status today morn! That's what our generation is stuck in...FB and other useless,unproductive matters rather than putting a lil bit of thought into where we stand as a country. And if you think any topic relating to our country is not serious, then dude...This discussion is not meant for you, you may ignore it!
Coming to the topic of " A man's perspective": Yes, there are pressures. I can understand a man who's starving who steals food. I cannot understand a man who's completed his engineering , earning around 80 K a month, giving an excuse like "few resources" and "family pressure". A man's needs and wants will never be satisfied. Doesn't mean you keep on taking bribes and say that "this is going to be here, it's not gonna change!" NO. we need to stand up, have courage and say "NO" . This is not going to be here. I don't want my kids to grow up listening to corruption stories. Besides I want to see India in the top countries of the world! That's where we belong, not at the bottom!
And sorcerer, seriously, don't you think its time to blow these issues out of proportion? I've had enough. I'm going to blow it. You choose to sit behind and enjoy the fruits of a struggle to make our country better, than that's your choice.
But I believe our education stands for something.
And it is this- To have courage to stand for what is right!
Don't try to prove a wrong point with correct English. Doesn't work always!
And I pity you for not thinking from his point of view and you not appreciating the fact that he's being truthful to you.Yeah- I am calling you selfish. Before you take a deep sigh and go crazy with the keyboard typing, read the following points- below. Carefully.
He atleast spoke the truth. I am sure you and I know how many people/men/women/people somewhere in the middle of it/not really sure what they are are (in reality) wolves in sheep's clothing. You don't need to agree with them- at max criticize them, but that doesn't mean you break your friendship with them. This is as silly as breaking friendship just because you're a vegeterian and the other friend loves non-veg (I hope you don't do something like this). There are times where humans loose your faith in something or the other and do something stupid and silly, then they rise back again. One can rise again only he has good people. If you are good person, rather than behaving like a silly little girl, you'll grow up and hope that the person will finally see the light at the end of the tunnel so you can help him when he sees it. That's what friends do. If you want to break up your friendship because he spoke his mind- good for him. Atleast he can look around for a real friend this way.
Your point is should people who are neutrally brought up with decent/good amount of education should even thinking about joining govt. job with an intention to get bribe. I am getting a good feeling that he's joking. Even if he is resorting to bribe, I seriously doubt he's remotely thinking something like govt. espionage or something. About "men" and not being satisfied, If you think about it technicaly its the needs of the humans (man and woman) that will never be satisfied.
I am sure there are lot of lists out there when Indians are at the top. There are some lists out there where Indians are at top, and some where we are low. Every country has this- some are low, some are high. This is how I see things, if I am a good guy and if I am good to people (like say 10 guys) atleast 1 will learn some essence of my goodness that a point will come in his life where he would reflect it some way or the other. Philosophy of awesomesauce!! That's how it works, irrespective of how "insignificant" it might seem.You might be thinking I am joking but I am not. Look at other countries and look at ours. You're looking at today and not yesterday. A lot of countries back in the days when they achieved freedom within a century's time- there was a lot of corruption. It has taken decades, but it eventually happened. It didn't happen because they played patriotic songs or something (well- not really), its because they made efforts to reduce the cause of corruption. The only way to reduce corruption, is to be calm and eliminate the cause of corruption. You cannot eliminate it by starving and making others to starve with you. That's called blackmail. Instead of certain people doing their jobs and taking care of the locality, they end up wasting their time to do crowd control.
What will you achieve if you blow things out of proportion? Has anyone achieved anything after blowing out of proportion? Nothing. Whoever did it eventually were pacified or realised that they cannot make horse out of donkeys this way.
Example: People talk about red tape system. You pay an amount to a guy sitting in a chair to get things faster. Rather than making his life miserable who is doing you a favour, do something to eliminate that redtape. For example? As far as what I've been told, if someone needed a passport faster, you pay the police officer who verifies you to put the file on top, so that your job is done faster. Now, you need to pay a particular amount to get the passport or renew a passport much faster. There ya go! Redtape is eliminated so a small extent, but if someone has some urgency- he or she has a choice.
News channels are talking about Delhi (and Chennai- I know because St. John's school at mylapore, Chennai asked a hefty lot of money) on a yearly basis- but nothing happened. Instead- it increased. Can you stand against it? Be my guest. The way I see things, efforts should me made to revive govt. schools and give a drastic upgrade, enough to make atleast large amount of middle class families to send their children without any hesitation. On top of it, give some incentive to families who send their kids to government school- that will seal the deal. New jobs will be generated, people will get choice of school and those schools who take hefty amount for admission might reconsider- provided the number is significant. Give first preference to people to get any government jobs who are studied from government schools- any jobs- high or low. Do we have that system effectively? Nope. Give incentives to teachers joining govt. schools as well- less tax, a bit more provident fund. You cannot eliminate the issue by standing on the street. You eliminate the issue of corruption by silently eliminating the cause of corruption by reducing it one step at a time. Think about it :). Cakes to you!!Just out of curiosity, would you break up friendship if someone becomes alcoholic, cheats on his GF/BF, wife, husband, does something stupid- or would you try to help him/her to get out of it.
Sorcerer,
I did not even read your reply beyond the 1st paragraph.
I don't want to listen to excuses for non performance!
Meh! If you don't have the patience to read something, I seriously doubt you know anything about the draft. Your reply in a way proven my point.
And Sorcerer , as I've said before, ignore this thread!
I strongly stand against corruption- and I maintain my point.
So am I. The difference is how I see corruption/bribing should be handled is far more effective and practical than some people dream about.
@ The Sorcerer
Now i am having very strong doubts that you are a congress supporter or maybe congress is funding you. For sometime i am seeing that all your recent forum comments are filled with negativity and you always try to project that the thread starter is stupid or something. Janaki's question was very genuine. I personally would not break up the freindship but our friendship would not be same again. My trust for him will surely become less. If one can't be sincere with his job how can u expect him to be faithful towards others.
People,
Please,
When one is dealing with a close person, you are bound to be careful and take all necessary action/precaution before walking out on him/her.
I was, to put it directly, saying that we , the people of India should have an attitude of INTOLERANCE towards CORRUPTION, isn't it?
The answer could be a simple- Yes or No.
But here I've been called a wolf in sheep's clothing, someone started a blame game and talked about root causes of corruption and other stories. We all know all that. The point is, to cut the crap and do whatever necessary to make our country a better place. And it all starts with 1 letter, it is "I".
hmmm. no comments. it's not as smiple as you might be thinking.
Arey aunty!!! Have you even read what I've written???He atleast spoke the truth. I am sure you and I know how many people/men/women/people somewhere in the middle of it/not really sure what they are are (in reality) wolves in sheep's clothing.
Aunty??
Lol
It's a political discussion we are having.You remind me so much of some of the arguments that went on in college, when you can't make a valid point, pass personal comments and insult the other person. It's not about me or you dear Sorcerer. And it's not about arguing and fighting to prove one's point. It's a discussion to share thoughts. Grow up!
@ Subhashchy: I understand it's not as simple. But we have to start somewhere....
See, you're the one who said that you haven't read anything more than a paragraph. Judging by the comment, you obviously haven taken a vague glimpse as you have said that I am calling you as a wolf. If you have read the comments I posted properly, I wouldn't have said it. I seriously doubt you will be offended by what I've said, but I hope that you will accept that you did not read that line. All I said is people like you and I know that there are those who are bad and yet they behave otherwise. Cannot understand this and misread as if I am calling you a wolf? Strange!I don't have anything against who are fighting against corruption. My issue is people have kept quiet and kept on giving bribes and stuff till a point 1 guy comes infront of a camera (the guy did not wake up one fine day, Anna hazare has a huge list of wins in the past) and media basically are feeding the sleeping anger within us.
I am not blaming media, basically they are feeding what people are aching to see. The problem is unless or until someone is decorated as a messiah and brought infront via various sources of communication, people "adjust" to it. On top of it, there are lot of people out there who do not vote, and yet they criticize. Corruption is a mammoth issue so we have a good team leading- what about issues for other stuff? Why do we need an individual who represents the symbol of hope when people can do it by themselves?
Point is people need to start taking ownership and responsibility by changing themselves dramatically- corruption is just one of them. If people's resolve were unbreakable in the first place there wouldn't have been potholes. Best examples- american. They nag all of them if they don't get proper service. That is why the corporations emphasize on stuff like after sales service. Coming back to the point. Do you think, breaking up your friends will solve anything? It might make things worse. There are times when we need someone to tell us "See, I told you so!!"- its human. Be human! Have a cake! Don't boil yourself uncessarily.
I started the thread wanting to know the personal opinions of people and their take on bribe-giving and taking and what they think about it in their personal lives. I did not mention Anna Hazare or the laws, or who's caught up in it or what the PM is doing about it.
Corruption is a big issue, and I've been sticking to just 1 point, if you knew your friend takes bribes, would you break up with him/her?
Yes or NO?
Yes- Because so- and so reason.
No- Because so and so reason.
But what happened here is, the question was ignored, and a blame game as to why those people against corruption are bad was started, and everything and anything apart from the basic issue was discussed.
Whatever your views are Sorcerer, you can put it politely, without insulting the other person. For sometime you definitely infuriated me, and that's why I chose to ignore your insulting language...all that was not necessary.
When in a discussion, please use polite language as much as possible. The other side will appreciate your views rather than get negative vibes about your words.
Do point out by quoting the insulting language :). Aunty is not an insulting language. Misreading and claiming that I have called you a wolf is not cool.
Now again,
you'll call me an aunty because I gave you a piece of some advice.
But seriously, I'm not interested in fighting with anyone, or insulting anybody, or upsetting someone's mood here. I mean well for you. Just that we could try reframing our conversation in a more polite way and I'm sure we would come out with better results in terms of what we have here right now.
Well... Well... too much of discussions here going on...btw Janaki: i have a question for you.. So you think that by breaking of the freindship you are doing your bit for your country? or u r avoiding the situation where u have a chance to 'educate' him. If the answer is in the affirmative then I would stand by Sorcerer.
You mentioned somehwhere that "we have to start somewhere" I guess you just stopped right there! aint it?
Don't have the time to read the entire discussion but I think that it can serve as a good passtime when I am bored. :-)
No, no and no. Friendship isn't something conditional. A friend is a friend no matter how the qualities change in him.
Simply following the words of Mahatma. I have followed what I have said above and therefore preaching it. :-)
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