Indians can't write proper English

I've not really contributed to Helium but one small request Mr.Balasubramaniam  - It looks a little awkward when someone scan's the forum topic and find the above topic. I think it would be more relevant if there was a question mark following the statement. 

I do realise you have only tried to put the exact statement on display but most of the bloggers here write in English and I feel it would stop sounding awkward with that punctuation mark. 

and there, I'm an Indian and I wrote proper English. 

Sorry if the whole punctuation claim seemed annoying.

No Varun, it is not an error. I intentionally left out the quesion mark for greater impact. Earlier I had phrased it as "Can Indians write proper English?", but then decided the current title being more definitive was more provocative and was more likely to elicit comments.

Could we have your comments on some of the issues I have raised lower down in my above article?

Sorry Varun, I was referring to this article, and not my post above:

Indians can't write proper English

I guess I did respond to that sir. I mentioned that I've never contributed or got associated in any way with Helium. Also, I mentioned that I'm an Indian and I write and speak proper English and I can now go on to say I can find a hundred friends who can as well. 

There might be some Indians who might make a few mistakes but, we aren't native speakers,  are we? Can the French write English without a flaw? The Chinese? I think we're much better.

Oops, I posted the comment at the wrong place. It should have been here. I am posting it again:

Sorry Varun, I was referring to this article, and not my post above:

Indians can't write proper English

I agree with Varun. Many Indians may not be well versed with English, but if we're compared to other countries, we're miles ahead. And those of use who can speak proper English, are better than your average American.  I think having a blanker ban is a rash way of going about it.

Yes, we regularly land Booker Prizes and have our celebrity authors in Arundhati Roy, Abhimanyu Chatterjee, Shobha De and the like.

But it is also true that all of us don't speak or write English. Given the glamour attached with English and the definite possibilities of earning money through writing in English, there is an increasing tendency of Indians who don't know English, trying to write in English.

When this happens in larger numbers, Helium is the result.

We can see instances of this in the posts in IndiBlogger too.

The question is, is there anyway of stopping this?

To me it seems the only way to arrest this is to make our own languages as profitable as English, so that people don't have to cover themselves in shame (and in the process India and other Indians too) in order to earn money, and they can earn money in a dignified manner through their own languages.

Software engineers like you Reni (I assume you are one, as you have conceived such an excellent site as IndiBlogger) have a major role to play here.

Why can't you start a site like Helium.com in our own languages so that people people could write in their own languages don't have to frequent foreign sites to earn money?

How difficult would that be, that is, creating a site like Helium.com or Associated Content that accepts articles in Hindi and other Indian languages and makes a profit too for the promoters of the company as well as the writers?

Also we will need something like AdWords and AdSense for Indian languges so that our Indian language blogs too have a possibility of earning money through ads. Currently AdSense does not support Indian language websites and blogs.

Again, how difficult would it be for some enterprising person or persons in India to develop a desi version of AdWords-AdSense?

Our large software companies like Infosys, TCS, Wipro, etc., have shown very little patriotism in this matter. They have mostly employed Indian brain power to serve the interests of foreign companies and countries. They have done little to promote IT or IT application in India itself.

Recently Narayana Murthy was on TV to discuss his recent book and he unashamedly said that most of these IT barons are entirely focussed upon the foreign market with just 1-2% of their revenues coming from domestic sources, and he saw no change in this pattern coming in the near future.

The results of this apathy are there for all to see. We don't have even a decent Wordprocessing programme in our own languages, and what there is (MS Word) is developed by an American company.

Efforts at making affordable laptops that every school children can use, have ended in a mockery.

When will our tech warriors and barons start thinking about our country's interest?

Recently there was a spat between Narayana Murthy and Deva Gowda over the infrastructure woes in Bangalore and Deva Gowda rightly asked Murthy what the IT companies have done for Bangalore, Karnataka or India in return for all the pampering they are receiving from the government.

I think Gowda had a point there.

I'd like to include a point here, Mr. Balu. In your own words, 'there is an increasing tendency of Indians who don't know English, trying to write in English.'

It is this tendency that has brought many million jobs to our country, instead of losing them to neighbours. 

It is this tendency that saves Indian students abroad from the embarassments of a special guided tour of the campus where the guide would accompany his/her 'word by word' dialect with actions, as if the tourists are deaf. News for the deaf and dumb. Deaf, partly because they don't understand the language called "English". Dumb, totally as they have to understand first, before they can respond. I've seen this happen to other Asian Nationals. Lucky it doesn't happen to us. 

Varun, I am not disputing that English does not have advantages, but I will qualify it by saying that it benefits only a few. Yes a few. In the context of India, even a few millions is only a few.

You are ignoring the tens of millions of people whom English renders unemployable in this country. It is because of English that our university graduates are insulted by our own companies and other employers as not fit for employment.

So while English saves a 'few' million Indian students abroad from humiliation, it subjects 'many' tens of millions of Indians in their own country with the worst kind of insult - that of being unemployable.

So when you weigh both kinds of insults, what would your verdict be? Does English serve Indians any purpose or does it not?

First things first, Mr. Balasubramanyam, I respectfully disagree with your statements and conclusion regarding Indians and English.

For a website to ban Indian writers, because of their poor English, sounds utterly ridiculous to me. I am sure they would have submissions from many countries written in poor English. (I studied here in the US and currently work here, and have seen lot of instances of poor English usage. Remember, English is the 'first' language of people here.) Helium could have considered the submissions on a case-by-case basis, instead of a generic 'ban all' attitude. It appears to me that this is a very drastic economic  decision. If they are swamped with many submissions, why not screen the writers for the language, before taking submissions.

Regarding your opinion about languages, I strongly feel that one should not discourage people from learning, and communicating in any language.  There is absolutely no harm in learning and improving one's own language. My mother tongue is Kannada. I love talking and communicating in it. It does not mean that I codemn English.

There are Indian companies which have been promoting regional languages in the computer sector. I agree that more needs to be done. Each one of us has a role to play. I have seen many parents who do not encourage their children to speak in the native language. Speaking in native language should be considered on par with speaking in English.

Each one of us has a stake in thinking about the country's future. Not only the 'tech warriors' and 'barons'.

For a website to ban Indian writers, because of their poor English, sounds utterly ridiculous to me... Helium could have considered the submissions on a case-by-case basis...  If they are swamped with many submissions, why not screen the writers for the language, before taking submissions.

Most of these sites receive thousands of submissions from hundreds of authors. It would be really difficult for them to screen every author and every article.

I strongly feel that one should not discourage people from learning, and communicating in any language.  There is absolutely no harm in learning and improving one's own language. My mother tongue is Kannada. I love talking and communicating in it. It does not mean that I codemn English.

Many Indians use English not because of any love for English, but purely out of pragmatism. English earns money. So whether they know English or not, they pitch in, with disastrous and ludicrous results.

There are Indian companies which have been promoting regional languages in the computer sector. I agree that more needs to be done.

A lot more needs to be done.

I have seen many parents who do not encourage their children to speak in the native language. Speaking in native language should be considered on par with speaking in English.

I utterly condemn these parents and totally agree with you on your second view above.

Each one of us has a stake in thinking about the country's future. Not only the 'tech warriors' and 'barons'.

Very true.

Most of these sites receive thousands of submissions from hundreds of authors. It would be really difficult for them to screen every author and every article.

If the site is receiving thousands of submissions, then why not have a standard screening process? Make it mandatory for all authors to pass some kind of test in English, before accepting submissions. When you cut corners in your process, you compromise on quality, irrespective of whether the author is from India or elsewhere.  I am not sure how one can use that as a justification for banning authors from India. (Would they accept submissions from Indians who are out of India, even though the submissions are of poor quality? )

Many Indians use English not because of any love for English, but purely out of pragmatism. English earns money. So whether they know English or not, they pitch in, with disastrous and ludicrous results.

Personally, I do not see anything wrong in people using English. I am sure most of the people want to learn to speak, and write good English. And I have seen many of them making an attempt to do that. They may make mistakes, but terming them as 'ludicrous' is very strong.

Personally, I do not see anything wrong in people using English. I am sure most of the people want to learn to speak, and write good English. And I have seen many of them making an attempt to do that. They may make mistakes, but terming them as 'ludicrous' is very strong.

This is turning into a debate on English vs Indian languages. But this too is an important one. So I will join it.

The question is why should people in India be using English? It is not any of their language. It is just a colonial legacy with a fast approaching shelf-life.

With China rising on the horizon, shouldn't we be spending time in learning Chinese? Or Arabic, or Spanish, or German or Japanese or any number of the other strategically relevant foreign languages?

And why should our schools be using English as a medium of education when every education expert has said that education is best given in the mother-tongue? Why does no one think of the great exploitation, aided and abetted by parents, of small Indian children that goes on in this country in the name of education? Do we realize that we are depriving our children of a happy childhood by forcing education on them in English? Do we realize how many years of children's life is lost in learning English?

There are better ways of teaching English to children than making it the medium of education in schools and colleges. In all non-English countries English is taught efficiently through ESL techniques in a fraction of the time Indian children take to learn English at school . Why not adopt these techniques to teach not only English, but also the other strategically important foreign languages.

Anyone who has passed IELTS or TOFEL know these techniques are very efficient and teach a foreign language quickly and effectively.

There are also other efficient techniques like the Callan Method mentioned in my article.

Adopting these, we can teach English to our children without making English the medium of education.

That is why I termed it ludicrous, because it makes no sense at all. Should have used silly perhaps.

whatever the we all think but Indians do lack proper english writing skill..

and if a forum feels so...it has every right to do so..

but removing the ? mark from ur post title u r actaully making a statement rather than asking for comments on the issue :)

I'm not sure I understand what the discussion is about - there seems to be two threads:

1. What's wrong with poor English because English is not the "native" language.
2. We should make Indian languages as popular as English.

I thought the original post asked whether people here have been affected by Helium's ban...

cheers!

Prashant.

There was a time it was said Indians can't play cricket as it is a game of White Sahebs... .and look today Indians are defining the rules of game and the white Sahebs willing to give a kidney or an arm to play in IPL.

My friend Languages keep on evolving the English that we speak today or write is different from what was spoken during the time of the Bard. Also which English this Helium is talking about? Queens? US? Canadian? Australian? Indian English? Carrabean? Morraccan or South African?

I hope I have made my point.  Pure English if there is any such thing will die or may be is already dead. Long Live English for it is evolving faster than the earlier versions are dying.

You can't equate languages with cricket. Languages can be properly learned only before the age of five. Not so with cricket.

Pidgin English may have a relevance in social networking sites and smses, but it serious writing, grammar and spelling can't be dispensed with.

I have not heard  about the website Helium. I do not think that one website banning Indian Authors is anything to be worried about. It is their loss, not ours. English is a dynamic and evolving language with new words being added to it. Nobody has a copyright on English. and in the end lets not forget all languages have been made to communicate with each, emphasis being on communication, flow of ideas, rest is immaterial. The more number of people we are able to communicate with the better.

Any language that does not evolve dies..... e.g. latin the mother of all European languages. What is being considered incorrect today will become the norm tomorrow.

If we are talking about banning Indian writers let us ban words like : Pajama, bunglow, jungle, Brahmin, dacoit, chaddi, from English language because they are all of indian origin. Why we should even ban the most sweet word in English language... CASH as it is of Tamil origin.

Thanks,

N