Consistent policy on Plagiarism
So how're we doing on this?
Looking forward to the community strongly encouraging mgt to pay attention.
Hoping those with more experience and knowledge on this issue than I will take this conversation forward and initiate action.
Reason: Spelling error
From twitterverse sent to me @punditcomment by a member of indiblogger
#mindis****ed how do you find the energy t fight it out? #respect.
Finally. Somebody has recognized and given the appropriate appreciation for what I have been doing here, fighting the good fight.
Is it some sort of energy drink or green tea, I wonder, that you drink.
Here's to the good fight!
Thank you very much, Ahimaz. 
I appreciate your solid assists and principled support.
Indeed, here's to the good fight! 
@Xeno:
Glad that we finally understand each other. I would hate to have to stop interacting with another witty and sarcastic writer.
yeah same here. 
Now stop writing your essays on that. 
Deal. 
Okay. Phew. I just forgot that the topic was Consistent Policy on Plagiarism.
I've prepared a set of honest statements for you PC.
- I did a big big BIG mistake to poke my nose into the situation where you were hurling all your (and our) grievances to Renie. Look at what I said there. Calm down. Simple!And okay.. now that you have clarified that you've indeed been calm when you've been saying all this, that is great! It is just that the way in which you replied to few comments, I felt that you were being too agitated and sarcastic. I've never said anything wrong. I never tried to prosecute you for your choice of words on the forum. But just as you have your freedom of speech, i have mine too. So i used it to advise you to calm down. Now if you take that as 'unsolicited'i don't care. I will repeat. All i said, was Calm down.
- I've read the entire discussion thread long before. And i am fully aware of what people have said. And PC it all comes down to the fact that yes, I've misinterpreted the person behind your words. I had the image of a "god-forbid-that-you-speak-anything-absurd-or-I-will-lambaste-you-with-sarcasm" kind of a 'guy' who could murder a plagiarizer if he had the opportunity to. Yes it shows how poor a listener I am. Sorry for that. Not that I didn't listen, but I misinterpreted your stance.
- No one is asking for your apology for saying "what the hell" or anything else.
- All this while my mind had presumed that you were a boy. That mistake won't happen again. I'm sorry for previous errors.
- I admire your vocabulary. To be honest, I've had to look up quite a few words that you've used here and in other threads.
My analysis of this entire thing:
- 1. Good discussions.
- 2. I just ask you to calm down. You take things aggressively and write essays explaining your position(all of which could have been done in shorter sentences.)
- 3. I finally understand anyway.
- 4. Discussion continues.
I'd hate to read another essay on this.
@Xeno:
Thank you very much for taking the time to read Ranjith's thread and this thread again. Your response given just now proves that my words did not get through to you when you jumped in mid-conversation. Again, it is incumbent on you to participate appropriately. I refer you to my exchange with R-A-J on Ranjith's thread.
I do what I can by taking the time and making the effort to provide full details and information to clear the misperception in the mind of others. It is indeed ironic that you are disdainful of this good faith effort. When 100% details were not effective for you, how exactly will a topline comment backed up by zero information and zero context be effective for you who did not understand the sequence of events?
In public discussions with strangers such as this, I write for everybody at all reasonable levels of intellect and reading comprehension and interest. This allows maximum participation and minimum chances of accusations of half-baked thoughts or evidence.
The only right way to do a discussion is to present all the relevant information each time there is a conflict or misunderstanding.
It is not my fault you chose to overlook the complete information presented to you.
For a blogger, you seem to be strangely averse to the idea of a person who writes well and writes clearly and writes all the relevant information so as to remove any iota of misunderstanding.
You and Renie made unwarranted and empirically (numerically) incorrect accusations at me. And now you object to me providing an able defense for myself and asking you to take back your accusations.
I've already told you I am perfectly calm during this entire discussion over the past few weeks. Perhaps now that you've read the threads, you have learned that I have no dog in this fight and I speak out of logic and reason and concern for the future instead of personal thoughts?
Do not confuse attention to detail and intellect and superior expression with god knows what.
you speak like a businesswoman PC. You can be a good CEO or something
Thanks, I think. 
I thought both of these shocking comments bearing evidence of self-admitted sexism in the ranks of Inditeam deserved prominence:
Hemal Shah from Mumbai 9 minutes ago@PC there are some things that Men do the best, and its best left it to them. And there are many things that Women do the best, and rightfully so, best left to them.
If things need to work with a Man and a Women, not just in a relationship, is understanding and respecting the things they respectively do the best. And neither women or men are always right. A women has to be submissive because that is in their nature, a man the leader.
I am not part of a pro-man Army, but both Men and women have their respective good qualities, so both should appreciate.
Hemal Shah from Mumbai 6 minutes agoAnd yes on a lighter note, if a female is not submissive in her nature, that means she has got a few male hormones..
Ooo! Now hw shouldn't have said that... 
@xeno:
Thank you, xeno, for recognizing the crucial error in judgement Hemal just made besides of course, the matter of his raging sexism.
This is the topic I started on Google Webmasters forum.I thought this guy would read it and stop copying,but he continued to do so and after I saw 20 posts I sent DCMA notice after which the site was deleted.
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Webmasters/thread?tid=04556209b5d68be0&hl=en
But now days I have stopped bothering,its a waste of time taking action against each and every copypaster,the decent chaps leave atribution links.The only other way is to report spam to Google it does not take much time.
Thank you for taking the time to drop a note here prophet666.com Congratulations on taking the right action and getting the offender's site deleted. If you are up to it, please do leave a message offering suggestions and inputs to the policy currently being drafted to deal with this issue at Indiblogger.
Counting down to the next man whose writing and analytical skills do not permit him to find fault in the merit of my arguments and instead makes assumptions about a stranger he has never met, unilaterally decides said stranger must be emotional about an issue if she is so voluble and "requests" me to be docile and well mannered (universal code for STFU) as he presumably believes all women ought to be whether or not they agree with his views.
1...
2...
3...
Go!
@Xeno:
You contradict yourself.
Sequence of events:
You admit that you log in often but do not spend a long time on the forum (on another thread), you come in in the middle of the discussion and speak in the middle of an exchange between Renie and me, I ask you to read the entire history of the discussion yesterday, to make sure you understand where I am coming from, I go ahead and fully list out the details that my brain analyzes as I read comments here and decide to respond, you do not tell me if you did indeed go back and read the full history of discussions or not, you openly admit that you do not want to read the explanation that you yourself ask for, and then you continue to offer unsolicited advice.
You had fair warning. I told you I would call out hypocrisy where I see it.
What should I say to this? Since you make objections to fact-filled analysis from my brain, shall I fulfill your wish and say nothing at all?
Kindly, good sir, keep your uninvited counsel to yourself.
I will never apologize for my intellect.
Just to add,
@Xeno, you continue to provide confused analysis possibly due to the fact that you have not read the discussion thread. I never responded to the person who made the comment I found absurd, as you rightly termed it. I wrote directly to Renie begging him to make sure the policy is created such that we do not let such a situation arise. I am not here to attack people. You are the only one doing right on this thread, when you attack me. I am here to discuss ideas and the mechanism and substance of policy making.
Oh, and Xeno, I am always calm. :-) Is the level of my discourse and the details and my choice of words not proof enough for you? What am I saying, obviously, you did not pick up on it and that is why you wrote those words to me. Talk to Hemal. He made the same mistake last week.
Again, it's not my problem if people don't recognize a nuanced detailed objective presentation of facts and arguments in a debate and thus confuse intellect and logic and reasoning with god knows what. If that is indeed the case, it speaks rather poorly of the listener, not the debater.
I didn't need to do this, you know. I could have just quit the community like many pro bloggers or chose to keep quiet and let low standards and cheating prevail for contests that I am not taking part in anyway or dropped a single message and then watched more active members with lower standards help Inditeam write the policy or said nothing at all and just continue participating contests hoping somehow magically things will get better and then, like the rest of the forum, when nobody from Inditeam shows any initiative to actually do anything, I could have joined a chorus of murmurs of disapproval with a hands off attitude.
We are the people we choose to be.
@ Arti - Here in this recent case the copycat apologized so that he's not blocked or blacklisted from this network. This exactly is giving second chance. Letting that copied content be in competition...that is abuse of other bloggers' authenticity.
@Ahimaz
Thanks for tackling that one so deftly while I was occupied elsewhere, Ahimaz. You are exactly right. This latest copycat should be thankful that thanks to his apology, he is not blacklisted or banned from Indiblogger. I seem to recall suggestions being made about spreading the word around the internet regarding Sourav Pandey or any other blacklisted caught plagiarizer. While I believe this would amount to cyberstalking unfortunately, I bring it up to show that there are always many ways of dealing with cheats, liars and crooks and some ways are even more extreme than mine!
I am going to pick up a few important things which PC mentioned in one of his long essays here and put it in simple points.
- We want the Inditeam to be more active in the forum. We need to know which points they are considering and which points may not be valid. We need the Inditeam to participate more into the discussions. Because all that I am seeing is that Renie drops in now and then with a comment, and Hemal is the only "active-as-required" indipolice here.
- We need to be informed about certain things in a much more active frequency... Certain things like Indirank Update Postponing to things which need to be introduced like "Share you views in this forum topic on PLagiarism" or "Participate in the Forum Rules topic Here".
I think i'll go start a new topic on forum rules as well.
And Xeno, PC is a "SHE"
PC, I guess its time you be a less agressive, now even people are confused! A lady has never had essays this hard on the forum 
Xeno, I have already raised this concern with Renie. Renie has been a mute spectator and he only comments when it is required. The forum was built for Bloggers and not for IndiTeam to be active on.
Yes I agree, when things of this importance and urgency are at stake, their presense is much more than required.
@hemal:
Thanks Hemal. I'm getting quite weary of asserting my gender again and again on this forum. Is it really so unbelievable that an Indian woman could be so articulate, assertive, independent, logical, rational, unemotional, opinionated and resilient and self-congratulatory?
I wonder when Indian men will stop underestimating Indian women. You know, some of us had lovely Indian men with tremendous foresight to be our fathers who believed in us and educated us and raised us right.
Oh yes, and Indian Women are well known around the world for manners too..
@hemal:
Indian or not, when any man anywhere in the world speaks of a woman in this manner (pun intended), the unmissable subtext is "shut up and do what i say. how dare you have a brain of your own."
Et tu, Hemal?
Why am I not surprised?
@PC there are some things that Men do the best, and its best left it to them. And there are many things that Women do the best, and rightfully so, best left to them.
If things need to work with a Man and a Women, not just in a relationship, is understanding and respecting the things they respectively do the best. And neither women or men are always right. A women has to be submissive because that is in their nature, a man the leader.
I am not part of a pro-man Army, but both Men and women have their respective good qualities, so both should appreciate.
And yes on a lighter note, if a female is not submissive in her nature, that means she has got a few male hormones..
Hello all, am tracking this thread - we're working on a policy on plagiarism, and in fact, a completely refreshed set of guidelines for this forum as well. The plagiarism policy is currently being reviewed by someone and will be put up asap.
IndiPolice will also get new tools - more on that in a seperate thread.
@Pundit - about the post on the chlorine contest, I emailed the author the very same day it was brought to my attention. I believe the IndiPolice did the same, and the issue is being resolved. Please understand that silence from my end doesn't mean I'm not doing anything about it - I make sure I understand any situation properly before I comment on it, and understanding any situation takes time, especially when there are people involved.
@Renie
There you go again, confirming my suspicions. I am really disappointed to hear that despite tall promises made barely a week ago about checking every entry of future contests, it was a random new member Ranjith who had to inform you all about this latest copycat, whosoever the person may be.
What exactly are the mods/police whatever the hell you want to call them doing? (I wrote more after this regarding the quality of the engagement of your representative on this discussion but deleted it out of courtesy to you)
@Pundit, all entries will be checked, but only before awards are given! IndiVine entries are automated right now - the manual process will come into play before prizes are given out, or else there will need to be two manual checks and it would slow the whole process down...
How do you mean, two manual checks?
Could you please keep in consideration Shilpa's suggestions as well regarding verification and appropriate actions. Thank you.
PC, all we need is verification and it is being done. Its practically impossible to check each and every post manually which is participating in the contest so its like shortlisting the way they do in corporates before deciding on final sets of candidate for interview (resume shortlisting)
@Renie
Please, I beg you, do not allow a situation to arise as Arti suggests "if the winner is found to be ..."
What the hell? What the hell am I dogging you for on this issue if there is still a risk of policies being created such that people can win contests by cheating still?
With such strong empathy and defence of plagiarists being provided by Indiblogger members, is it any wonder that no policy has been created in the past 2 years?
I am amazed.
@Animesh:
I spoke to Renie/Inditeam who made the tall promise voluntarily to manually check every contest entry not more than a week ago. I knew it was beyond their capacity then and I know it now and so does everybody.
PC, just tell me do you really believe that each and every entry should be verified manually and it is a practical thing to do?
@Animesh.
Are you not hearing me correctly or do you not believe me or do you not remember that Renie/Inditeam voluntarily out of the blue promised to check every contest entry manually. Nobody coerced them, they chose to say it on their own. Please go back and read the relevant threads.
So what if they promised? Do we go with words used or do we understand the intention behind it?
What do we want? Do we want them to die but to keep their promise? Or do we want them to do whatever is practical and more efficient? Is it a debate for what they promised (in literal words) or is it a debate for what should be done to keep the place clean?
The final aim is to keep the place clean and I think methodology proposed by Renie is more efficient.
And yes, I remember what had happened. I need NOT go back and read relevant threads!!!
@Pundit, please read what I said above - we will be be checking the entries manually. I never said that it won't be done. The entries will be checked for plagiarism before the winners are chosen.
What I meant about two manual checks - the first when the entry is submitted into the contest, and the second when the winner is being chosen. It makes sense to do it once towards the end, or else we'll have delays when the entry is submitted.
@Pundit, you've used the phrase "what the hell" a couple of times in this thread... I do understand that you're furstrated, but using aggressive language is what flames up a thread and consequently, everyone's language changes. Let's keep this peaceful - we're all working towards the same goal here, we only have to decide on the best way to do it!
good lord. @animesh i feel you've jumped the shark with this comment. i'm quite flummoxed with you. you don't seem to require any leadership, consistency, competency, or integrity from inditeam. i don't know what to say to that.
@renie: Yes, I am well aware you promised manual checks. I merely enquired what was the reference about two manual checks before Animesh spoke in between and misunderstood my query directed to you.
What is the problem with delay on entry, if I may ask? We've had 2 strikes in two weeks. Are you not worried about the reputation of Indiblogger with your members and your corporate sponsors? Why do you not like verifying entries before they are put up for scrutiny by the community? Pl see Shilpa's suggestions on this as well.
If we verify each submission as it is sent in, I don't understand why we would need a second manual check. As I've said repeatedly before, touch wood, I have no direct personal experience on this. So I'm trying to understand through logic and reasoning here. Please help me and the rest of us listening in undersand. I was hoping that others with more experience would engage on this and I'm sure they will once they spot this thread.
@renie:
Really? Really? With everything else going on, you're going to try to restrict MY freedom of speech too?
1) If you want this forum to be soo G rated, why isn't the word "hell" censored on your software.
2) I believe this place ran amok with flamers and abuses not too long ago. You're seriously going to tell me I can't express one simple general "what the hell" at the conversation?
3) For a better understanding of where I am in this conversation, please read through all my activity today on the forum. Then tell me if I am or am not entitled to express my frustration for banging my head against the wall that is this conversation.
I honestly cannot believe that I've actually had to convince people not to let a content thief take part in this contest with the copied content but now reduced votes (bizarre totally arbitrary illogical punishment) or let him take part with a new original post (thus penalizing the ppl who turned in original work the first time).
PC you're taking things aggressively. Calm down. Every big and difficult situation can be resolved easily. You can go ahead and vent your anger with whatever words you choose, but Renie only tried to point out that such words repeatedly used can cause friction. Other people may pick up your mood. And the post becomes flamed. that is all.
Now listen to what Amir khan has to say, ... All Is Well!
@renie, xeno:
Uh-huh, uh-huh. So you guys are gonna make a federal case out the most innocuous phrase "what the hell" in the year 2011 around all adults after 20 straight hours of banging my head against a wall?
I see how it is.
Persecute the only person who speaks not for personal interest and not out of personal experience but speaks for common interest and speaks out of logic and reasoning and enough brain power to understand the topic and argue my case on merit.
Way to go, guys.
No really, clap clap clap.
@renie, xeno
btw, sure hope you realize you just accused me of being responsible for other people when in fact i am conversing with renie directly on the mechanism and substance of policy making. that's a logic fail. i am not responsible for any body else. i've been on this topic all day going round and round with people who empathise and condone poor quality non fiction research and writing work and even outright plagiarism if excused by ignorance and an apology. Spend a minute in my shoes. Many would have either quit or just retreated into the background like most of the members on record here or said a lot more than a single general "what the hell".
I take strong objection to this mischaracterization and attempt to malign me.
mch! PC look. Don't make "What the hell" a big issue! You can speak whatever you wish to on the forum. And yes of course you will be responsible for every word that you speak. It is not that you are going to be directly responsible for someone who starts flaming the thread because he became agitated by your words. But you should keep your calm and talk sensibly so that it doesn't happen. We are all against plagiarism. And we are all angry with plagiarists. So there is no one here who needs to listen to be shouted into the ear to be enlightened against this evil. And you will see that a lot of people have come up and donated their 2 cents to your own topic. Everybody is concerned. And we all are aware that you're highly concerned about this too. So you can keep your calm and speak normally. We do not need to hear words like "What the hell" again and again to sit straight on our chairs and start fighting for a policy against plagiarism. We are already doing that.
So PC, my advise to you would be to stop getting agitated about it and start sharing your own ideas in a proper manner. We can reach a faster and better solution that way. Renie has already said that he and his team is working on it. We are not a bunch of hooligans parading on the street against price rise.
Calm down. Put aside the sarcasm. You may bring in friendly humour. Share, contribute and discuss.
@Xeno:
I strongly suggest you read through my entire activity on this topic, on Ranjith's thread and this one and everywhere else yesterday and read the other comments made by other members as well.
Once you do that, you will find that Indiblogger members are not all against plagiarism. Some members condone letting the chlorine contest copycat participate with a new post or with x number of votes reduced (a totally arbitrary bizarre idea). What school anywhere on this earth allowed cheaters to participate and reduced marks instead of expelling or suspending them? And if anybody knows of such school or even went to one, more's the pity and there is nothing left to say from my side. I truly cannot comprehend what blogging ethics anybody can speak of once we start allowing copycats to roam freely amongst us. If anybody is not aware of the simplest of things, why doesn't Indiblogger community make them aware upon membership here through a code of conduct/ethics/guidelines? Why not raise standards instead of wallowing among the unsavoury elements? There will be no more excuses from existing members for us to deal with time and time again and have this debate time and time again.
Now on to the matter of your condescension and lack of appreciation for my fight on this issue:
Further, Xeno, if you want to get in between an exchange between Renie and me, I suggest you respond to my points on merit and debate with me to put across your points of view if you find an area of disagreement instead of advising me on what to say when in fact, i have broken no forum guidelines unlike many others in the past who remain unpunished. (really? now you're going to try to outlaw sarcasm? really?)
Again, I ask, are there any toddlers listening who will never have heard the most innocuous of expressions, what the hell, before? Did I direct my frustration at any one person? Did I flame anybody on personal grounds? No and No.
I am able to type those words as I discuss this with you again and again because Renie's own software does not censor it. I don't even have to play around it and write h3ll. Of course if Indiblogger wants to become the Disney Channel for ages 2-8, they are most welcome to censor more words. I've already said I don't know curse words in hindi or english and I do quite alright with the standard English vocabulary.
So kindly stop trying to restrict my freedom of speech as I choose to exercise it well within my rights. I take strong objection to anybody else who attempts to mischaracterize and malign me. I will simply not stand for it.
I find it ludicrous that the same forum which allows real obnoxious people to run amok when Inditeam is away or busy on other work is now trying to come down on legitimate dialogue and discussion and debate in 100% parliamentary language.
I will point out hypocrisy where I see it. Don't like to hear it? Tough luck for the person or persons or community or forum committing the hypocritical act.
The fact that people will try to stop me for standing up for principles and talking on substance speaks volumes...and none of it good.
Talk to me on merit, substance, policy and rules. Do not try to make up non-existing rules and impose them retro-actively on me. I will call you out on it. Again, really? no sarcasm?
Oh, and since you and Renie didn't pick up on it, Xeno, please note that I responded "what the hell" one time, not repeatedly, in response to a comment that envisioned a future scenario in Indiblogger that would allow members to turn in copied posts unchecked and even win contests before they were detected lord knows how! Such a comment sets back the clock on this entire issue and discussion that we've been having for weeks since the Sourav Pandey episode. After all the brou haha and the new resolve expressed by Inditeam, why would we ever allow a future scenario where there is a repeat of the Pandey incident??? That makes no sense.
Now do you see that there are indeed members actively participating in the discussions here who are not treating plagiarism as seriously as you seem to think? I'm the one going round and round and banging my head talking here, Xeno, not you. So, if you already agree with my position on this topic, kindly do me the courtesy of reading through the discussions and appreciating my lone fight for the cause.
There is no knowing which members' comments left on these threads are actually being considered and weighed more by Inditeam as they create their guidelines and policies. How do I know what is in their minds and how they are talking about this amongst themselves. They are conducting no community-wide democratic polls. They did not send out an email requesting responses after Pandey's incident. I have no way of knowing who they're listening to about this and why. Responses shared by Inditeam rep have been half-baked and reactionary.
How can you begrudge my 100% totally open, transparent, honest, active contribution on facts, logic and reasoning to the process? I find it shocking.
PC I DO appreciate whatever you're doing and the way you're fighting for this cause. I do. But all that I am asking you to do, and all that Renie meant to say is you do not need to calm down in here. If there are people who support absurd (yeah it is absurd i know) ideas like reducing 'x' number of votes or allowing to participate with new entry an all.. you can't change that by using sarcasm. Try to explain, not ridicule. Yes i agree that we still need to have our freedom of speech on the forum. But there is something that you should understand. Wouldn't it be better if you took on things a bit calmly? You know what, everytime i see an large essay for a topic reply, i hate it. And i'm sure there are people who skip it. So PC I am not limiting any part of your freedom, but in simple words,... all i said.. is
Calm down!
@Hemal
That's the POINT. Inditeam/Renie/Indiblogger HAS NOT COMMUNICATED ANY SINGLE CONSISTENT POLICY ON PLAGIARISM.
Do you really not understand why life will be tough if Indblogger continues to look at things case by case and has no consistent rules and policies????
No consistency means you expose yourself to hypocritical reactions to future cases and you will always have to hear members asking "why did you do x to A but y to B?"
Really, come on....do I need to explain this?
Re: Gouri, please answer his concerns directly. He wrote on Pramod Lohia's thread re: Sourav and he wrote on this thread again.
Just to add, I don't want to speak for Gouri and it's best for Inditeam to communicate directly with him re: his case. If you want to know why Gouri felt upset after watching how Sourav Pandey case was handled vis-a-vis Mohan's case, you have to talk to him.
Plus, what is the final action on both? Does Indiblogger condone keeping well known plagiarists in the community? What is the single consistent policy that Indiblogger wishes to propose and implement about plagiarism?
@PC, I think Hemal already communicated its "WORK IN PROGRESS" and will be communicated as soon as it is complete. There is no point in communicating a half-cooked policy
Pundit, the policy is being framed and will be public too.
The stand of IndiBlogger is, you apologize for your wrong doing to all of your readers, remove post or credit the original author. If you have won any contests using the copied contents, return your prize money so that it can be passed on to the rightful winner.
What if someone is found doing it repeatedly? It also must be considered. Someone should not be allowed to escape everytime merely be apologising.
@animesh:
and yet, that is exactly what is being shared and cooked up on the other thread!
Also, I go through threads in reverse chronological order when I log on.
+1 @animesh's second comment.
@hemal:
How do you know the apology is sincere? What does that matter? Ignorance is no excuse.
The gift of technology lowering barriers and enabling us all to find our own soap box to communicate with the world does not mean we allow people who cannot produce original content to take advantage of this.
+1 Arti. I also did not know about it for a long time. Though I have never done an act of copying content, I use images from web and initially I never gave credits. Simply I didn't know about it. I learnt it later on and started crediting the site for the image.
First time offenders should not be punished or punished with a mild punishment. Repeated offenders should not be tolerated
Agree with you guys, repeated offenses should not be tolerated.
+1 @Arti @Animesh
Jiska shaq tha woh sach lag raha hai.
Reading the thread on the chlorine contest post that was copied from elsewhere, Indiblogger community does not appear to desire a consistent policy on plagiarism. Much dishonesty and confused thinking and hypocrisy abounds.
Personally, I'm very glad I did not participate in the Chlorine contest, which is the first opportunity to participate in a contest since I joined. Going by comments there and silence from Renie on this issue, Indiblogger doesn't even want a fair playing field, forget the question whether or not they've picked appropriate experienced, skilled, intelligent mature people to judge these things.
Gouri is still waiting for answers, too regarding the case of Mohan. [Oh yes, I'm going to continue bringing it up until it is resolved]
Is this how Indiblogger wants to treat its quality members? Very disappointing. What exactly was I defending just a few days ago? Where is the Renie who took the right action re: Sourav Pandey? What is that Renie doing re: whoever cheated on the Chlorine contest?
Answer me, Inditeam or risk standing exposed as hypocrites and vindicating Suraj78 and member-moderator Rohan who presumably left the community over this.
Hi 5!
@Pundit I dont understand what is Gouri waiting for and his issue crops up every where. From my point of view (which is not IndiTeam's PoV btw) that issue is solved when Mohan removed the post, blog altogether, got into a healthy discussion and answered questions by Gouri and others calmly. And no, I dont have any personal liking towards Mohan affecting this view, neither that he is a IndiPolice.
If you think injustice was done to Gouri, plese share your views about what should be done? Mohan's blog is already deleted, posts no longer exist. Mohan has apologized to Gouri on the forum and started his reply with an apology.
See Pundit, we are here to promote good. IndiBlogger has always been people driven, and always will be. The decisions here are jointly taken with Bloggers and the Inditeam. None of us have any personal grudges against anyone. When I wear the IndiPolice Hat, I follow ethics and facts but still be human.
When someone accepts his mistake, we have to give them a chance. As for Sourav, he never admited, never accepted his mistake, nor did he put up an apology and hence, the action. He went on a rampage and abusing everyone without looking at the gender and age which jusifies the action what IndiBlogger took.
About who ever cheated on the Chlorine contest, I myself spoke to that person and he, in his very first interaction, apologized. I am of the view that he should be allowed to participate given that this is a genuine cause, a natural at that. You can see my views on this post already : http://www.indiblogger.in/forum/topic.php?action=replied&id=8572
About Rohan and Suraj78, we are still not clear what had happened with them that they were forced to leave the community. There were differences of opinion between them and other members where neither IndiTeam or IndiPolice (other members) were involved. And can you please elaborate on your claim of "Risk standing exposed"?
You have a different view of course, about plagirism, no-tolerance. I appreciate your view, and welcome that. But then, you should do so to our view as well.
Sigh. Not again: http://www.indiblogger.in/forum/topic.php?id=8572
godforsaken stupid people - plagiarizers.
yes, abhi. hence the non committal expression of weariness from xeno and me.
true. lets hope its a false alarm.
@Mohd Ibrahim. Link pl?
http://www.dmca.com/Protection.aspx
@Mohammed: Yeah i was thinking about it. Although I do feel that unlisting from google search SHOULD be a big blow to bloggers who are looking for readers by plagiarizing content.
@Pundit:
Correct the topic spelling for Plagiarism.
Whoops, Sorry Xeno.
@Animesh
i perfectly understand what you are saying. But, alas we have got dirty enough, the pig only seems to be enjoying. :)
We did our part, now its upto the readers to make a choice, its upto the blogger to make a choice. We cant be a moral police, neither can we sue every wrong doer. What we can do is, keep our houses clean.
Its nothing personal buddy, we dont have anything against that guy, we are against plagiarising, and doing anything more than what is already done would be going personal.
I agree with @Eon. We have done what we can do. going anywhere beyond this will be going personal.
Agree Eon and Hemal. We made ourselves dirty; yes we did. We have nothing personal with him (in fact, most of us don't even know him) and we damn care about what he does elsewhere. My point is for future. What I know and am sure you all will agree to, we cannot let anyone else make our home dirty. And its not possible till the time there is a fear factor. That's the point.
@Animesh
i guess, this was a good enough fear...any normal human being would find this whole episode to be humiliating enough to keep away from such cheap tricks.
@Eon, I think I agree with you as for any newbee joining Indiblogger (or existing ones also), its an example enough to show what harm can we do. This just needs to be featured somehwre:)
Advertise it in The TOI?? :P
gosh mann!! its featured on indiblog!! what else you want??
hehehe...
Over a period of time, this post will be down under other recent posts.
I am in for a publication house to report this. But am not sure about the implications.
For sure DMCA will be filed against him.
yeah i really don't know much about this but i think there is some google system in which you can place plagiarism complaints under DMCA act and they do remove it.
Its an american legal act @Xeno and google, along with every other web hosting provider have to acceed to the same.
@Hemal: so is a DMCA complaint to google of any use? I mean will they look into simple blogs or are they concerned only with large companies and all.?? How is it done?
well, DMCA as stated by Hemal is an american copyright protection law. Googl'es DMCA take down guarantees only the unlisting of it from the google search results or products. The entire take down is actually a long process which requires financial backups too.
But I urge each and every blogger to register your site/blog with dmca.com and place a DMCA badge in your blog (after registration) so that the site provides 1 FREE TKEDOWN proceedure for free users too.
Well, my take on plagiarism would be, indi can take a few steps to prevent it from happening, but in the end, it rests upon us, each individual to do the needful.
And monitoring each post that comes up on indivine "may" be too taxing on indi too...
i dont really know how they work, and i am considerably new here...
but then, i also second on a few of yours opinion abt the black listing thing.
@Animesh - i believe the original writers comments on indiblog proves his guilt,a nd secondly, the WeBlog crap is his own, if you follow the comments closely, the concerned topic forst shows it to be raised by the admin, then a few of the comments supposedly by the admin is from the first person (sp's) pov...and honestly, in the few email interactions i had with him, i dont really expect any apology from his side. He seems to be too lost in the mirror to see out of his window. he even promoted his last post on a fellow bloggers fb profile saying its his reply to indi n us...(he even asked everyone to comment on it!!)
I did followed every bit of it very closely and also observed what you have mentioned above and that is why the question. What is that one thing becuase of which he did not care about it much? I have been thinking about it, more because if someone is caught red-handed like this, there are certain responses/reactions which are natual. In this case, it was missing altogether. There was no sign of apology and then there was a visibly obvious fake story of some hidden blog and then there were personal attack. Let me tell you all where I am coming from.
I can see people demanding of blocking the person completely from Indiblogger. What I see in this case is the person in question has already earned what he could. I am not using the term "earn" only from monetary perspective. The guy had offcourse earned some good amount of money, but more than this was his fan-following and subscription. He knew that he has more than decent following and IndiBlogger cannot help him anymore; moreover there could be nothing that IndiBlogger can do to harm as well. It was that confidence which made him react in this way (You can refer to his latest poem which proves my point).
In my opinion, there should be some way so that all FRAUDS are afraid of losing there fan-followings and they should be know HARM can be disasterous for them. Hope I'm clear
I guess you made yourselves clear Animesh.
Yes, its been missing in this scenario. And you got it very right, its the followers they have learned. If we need to make it anymore dangerous, we ought to keep reminding the readers somehow, that he is a fraud, a cheat and a ugly robber of art.
@Hemal, its not about "Him" only. We need to remind that anyone cheating out here can be damaged:)
@Animesh I guess we already set an example. I am sure I dont wanna see this in future. We cant go beyond what we did for this case.
If monitoring each post is tough for Inditeam then I have this suggestion.(Although I mentioned this suggestion at another topic started by Ranjith few minutes ago, I am repeating it here)
Whenever a contest is announced, an email should be sent to every contestant telling them to verify through replying to indiblogger that the content is their own and if the blogger is found guilty of cheating then action will be taken against him. Until the blogger verifies it, don't let the entry to be submitted. One more thing, whenever someone joins indi community, they should be made aware of the policy regarding plagiarism and same verification should be asked from them before approving their blog. This way they will know that Indiblogger is hard on plagiarists and they might refrain from cheating.
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shilpa
Yeah in the Plagiarism Penal Code [to be made] we need to have some clear clauses which will help us classify the magnitude of crime done by the plagiarist.
For example,
- He/She has been caught copying ONE article. He/She apologizes for the mistake. Ban Indivine usage for a month, and no conest participation during that time too.
- He/she copies ONE article. Does NOT accept mistake. Ban from Indiblogger immediately. Mention on Indiblogger blacklist.
- He/She copies A FEW articles. Does accept mistake sincerely and immediately. Ban from using Indiblogger for a time period like if No. Of articles copied is N then the No of months banned will be N(N+1). Till that time, name to be mentioned on Indiblogger blacklist.
- He/She copies A FEW or MORE then a few articles. Does not accept mistake. Ban from Indiblogger immediately. Mention specifically in Indiblogger Blacklist.
@Xeno
I am more likely to support your list than to resort to no mercy.
This will be more apt as we proceed to tech every a lesson by giving them by chance and not running a military court.
- Setting up a Blacklist of Blogs - Everyone on of the participants in this discussion should promote it on their respective blogs to get visibility. The List will remain in Forum / IndiBlog and will be updated only by IndiTeam.
- Random Manual Checks - IndiBlogger will surely need Volunteers! Now who is interested in arresting Plagirism? Come forward and be a part of the AntiPlagirisam team.
- Reporting Mechanisim - All reporting for Plagirism should be via IndiPolice or direct to the IndiTeam via IndiMails. Should contain the original URL and the copied URL (if Images other art, URLs of Pages where the Image is present)
And would like to add a few more views.
- No flaming on the forum strictly by any members
- No discussion threads of the issue till its confirmed by the IndiTeam. (This is to save some personal ego issues from creating a mess)
@Hemal.
True. And good points.
- Blacklist of Blogs - a lot of people are supporting this.
- Anti plagiarism team? Count me in.
- Yes initial findings should not go to the forums. It should go to indiblogger first and to the indipolice. After they look into it, and confirm the case, then we can go ahead with the blacklisting thing.
Am supporting these.
SP's case seems to have angered us all as he was also abusive towards other members. I think it's important to keep the two issues separate: plagiarising and abusing.
I think anyone who indulges in abuse should be banned, irrespective of being a plagiarist.
@ruhi: no can do, ruhi. a little somethin' somethin' called the indian constitution.
@Pundit Commentator, sorry I didn't get you. Am supporting Xeno's list, it makes sense... some flexibilty as well as good enough deterrence.
Abusing was bad, n sad. That shouldn't be tolerated in any circumstance. We are here to blog, not to hear/hurl abuses.
@ruhi: Hi ruhi, all i meant was that it is a very dangerous thing to try to restrict freedom of speech. Certain curse words are already blocked by the forum software. Outside of that, we are free to express ourselves as we see fit and we must hear out everybody else too. It is up to us to figure out genuine concerns and words and emotions (whatever they may be) from insincere engagement or spamming. I would not advocate taking away freedom of speech. That's all. :)
@ruhi:
oh, if you like, you could make suggestions on which curse words to block.
I'm no good at this kind of a job because I have a very limited vocabulary in English curse words and practically non existent in Hindi. :-)
I'm much better at expressing myself with proper words and I'd like to retain my right to do so.
uhhh.. Pundit I really think that you correct the spelling mistake.
It is PLAGIARISM not Plaigirism.
We ought to have some serious guidelines on transparency as well, especially regarding deletion/moderation of threads. I was going through the comments on the recent blog post and found that Bikram had brought up this matter last year itself but the thread was deleted for reasons best known to God.
Thank very much for bringing this to our attention Gouri.
@Gouri - This really got lost in the hustle and bustle up there. It'd be nice if someone makes time to shine a light on this...
Okay guys. Let me clear some air.
Bikram and guys were complaining to Renie about an alternative forum that SP was creating, named WeBlog. IndiBlogger's response was that they dont care if someone is creating a competative community. What the complain was that this community "weBlog" was having dummy contests that Sourav won, was promoting his blog posts over and above other blog posts that were contributed to this community. In around November last year, after some off air controversy, SP revealed himself as the owner of the weBlog community on Facebook. Till that time, no one knew who owned the community. Bikram and others found this out, they checked the WHOIS information of the website domain and found out that SP was the owner of the domain and they then complained to Indiblogger about the same.
Their website was down for what reason we are not aware of, perhaps some domain issues.
If BlogAdda (just for example) or some other community is running a fraud contest, what can IndiBlogger do about it? That was the response of the IndiBlogger team.
Hemal, thanks for clearing that up!
Here are some simple suggestions.
For a blog found with plagiarized content [with sufficient proof about the crime] should be:-
- Banned from Indiblogger.[Permanent]
- Make an indiblogger plagiarism blacklist and we'll blog, stumble and do whatever possible to get people to know that these people are god-damned plagiarists. Do not visit their blog.
- Social Outcast. No comments, no following, no reading, no visiting by indibloggers as much as possible.
Add more. Or discuss these. I think the 1st one is pretty obvious. This is a good topic. Let us resolve this situation here.
These are solid suggestions, particularly second and third.
Screening for plagiarism at the point of blog submission, contest, Indivine must go along with it without saying so.
Create the policy, IB, and mail it to all Indies so that everyone knows the do nots.
Everyone knows where I stand on plaigirism so you can guess my reaction to these suggestions. Throwing the floor open for others to comment and suggest more.
Yes, good points Ahimaz.
- Screening for plagiarism during blog submission. And personally scanned for plagiarism by moderators for all contest submissions, atleast before voting starts.
- Create a strong Policy, and inform about it to all indibloggers[old] and all new ones who join.
- Make a strong Terms of Service which everyone accepts before becoming an indiblogger. Include clauses which can suitably punish plagiarizers.
I don't think the plagiarist should be permanently banned... that would mean no plagiarists on indi, but doesn't mean no plagiarists anywhere. Plus, I think we should differentiate between habitual cheaters and those who are trying it for the first time... lets go for deterrence rather than capital punishment. First timers should be made to realise their mistake so that they never do it again.
Blacklisting, social ostracism is good.
I think I've said what I had to up there. Cheers, Folks
For some reason I don't get mail updates on threads I'm tracking.
@Hemal, the entire incident is clear to me now and if that was the only complaint which was made, I am with Indi team completely. Its the same concept wherein you draw a bigger line to make a line smaller. If someone is making a parallel community and using all kinds of fraud, lets make ourselves better and stick to ethics. Their FB page itself says how success(!) they were. Though number of "like"s are very high, you hardly see comments on posts. Even on the recent burning issue, I saw very less comments from followers.
@Animesh I am not sure if any coping stuff was raised then, but this is what I know off as of now..
@ruhi:
oh, if you like, you could make suggestions on which curse words to block.
I'm no good at this kind of a job because I have a very limited vocabulary in English curse words and practically non existent in Hindi. :-)
I'm much better at expressing myself with proper words and I'd like to retain my right to do so.
@Ahimaz: I'm 3 weeks old here. Not for me to tell Renie, Indiblogger what to do. Plus I'm not a lawyer and can't advise them either. :) I'm straight on copycats: Just say no. No mercy, no tolerance, no apology required, no membership.
@Pundit - I'm so many weeks old two, plus one perhaps :) I wasn't expecting that when I said it...no way. However, it will do good to inform/mail Renie about the existence of this certain topic so the Team keeps a tab on it.
@Ahimaz
I wrote to Renie twice privately during the Sourav Pandey brou-haha and said it again for the third time on the public thread : pls communicate a consistent policy on plaigirism and talk to gouri.
He acknowledged the message and protested hosting, server trouble priorities.
@Pundit - I have (pardon) trouble putting together what you say coherently (maybe it's just me). I thought it's not just us here so my suggession to ping Renie regarding it. Perhaps they're already working on it...and these suggestions can be chipped in if it is of any relevance.
@ahimaz:
I asked Renie to communicate a consistent policy on copycats three times - twice in private emails and once on the previous thread re: Sourav Pandey.
He acknowledged the message. But he has not taken any action and does not intend to while tackling IT problems.
I'm not letting the topic go as you can see by the fact that I started this thread.
Only IndiMods can tag Renie - waiting for one of them to do that for this thread.
Since I've already said it 3 times, any of you are most welcome to take up the demands further.
You're understood, Pundit. I've mailed Renie too twice in the last two weeks though not related to the same issue. I see Xeno, Ruhi, Gauri participating here with us. If one of them can do it, all the better. If not I will do it by morrow eve the least. Until then let this good thing, due thanks to you, keep going. Good shiny day.
@PC Tagged!!
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