Do you like posts which use incorrect language?

On the light note let us take the fact that misspelled and grammar are the two words usually not written properly in English. That speaks a lot 

I understand that your motive was not to reprimand, but I do understand some bloggers felt that way.

Indu, TOI cannot change English, they have no rights. When we talk about proper grammar then we stick to grammar and not what TOI does. 

The way you try to irk someone by doing something on purpose, could be so are the other trying it out, may be. They may find some kind of satisfaction by doing it. 

People have always said they do something because they like it that way, that is how languages gets mauled. That is how American English, Indian English, Australian English etc. came into existance. 

As you have asked for opinion, let me tell you that I do not get bothered by the language of a blog, or the style they use, though I cannot help noticing it. I myself do you LOL, often in my blog so I do not complain. 

I am  or was a kind of perfectionist, trying to get things right in everything I do. But life teaches us a lesson and I have learned to adapt. 

First thing that caught my attention was the fact, that though you have shown concern about language, your i's are not capitalized and spaces have been skipped in few places. . Please don't be offended as my intention is not of teasing or insulting you. I am just telling that these things happen with everyone. 

First let us see what the blog is all about. If it is something like a light hearted, funny posts; than language should be excused. Blog is all about communication and not literary creation. It should all be about passing on the message in a right way. Youngsters have taken to sms language, and that is their choice of communication now. They feel left out of crowd or not of modern generation if they use proper sentences. I have seen teens typing proper sentences unknowingly and then erasing them to write in their sms script.

If the blogs are written for a cause or reviewing books etc, it is inappropriate to use incorrect language and grammar. Anyway proper language, good communication skills and proper spellings never hurt anyone, so go for it if you can. But those who want to use Hinglish, Kanglish, Tanglish, or smslish should not be reprimanded for writing in that language, because it is their blog and their style. If a person is not comfortable with the blog, they can sure skip it. Where is the necessity to promote or read a blog? It is not a movie you have paid for the tickets and have to suffer till end.

Indu, I have read your blog today and it was an amazing post about wonderful life skills.  Good work there. Now with my life experience let me tell you one thing. The only person we can or need to correct is ourselves. We cannot change other people, especially bloggers because it is their own domain, their own style. We can only reprimand them when they use vulgar, abusive or offensive language.

BTW it is funny that most of the people who have mentioned about writing accurately have missed spacing, grammar and committed mistakes on this thread itself, which says "Kabhi kabhi galti ho jaati hai, jaane do yaar". 

Farida first of all the motive behind this thread was not to reprimand anyone.....i merely asked if others also feel this way.

Secondly T.O.I. have started this trend long back of not writing capital i for first person & i abide by it because i like it this way.

I purposely  missed some capitals just to see if it irks anyone & it did.

I have been told that capitals are not appreciated here & that is why i make spaces in between to show the beginning of another sentence.

I have no problem with the insertion of vernacular phrases in between because this is I.B. after all...but when we write the rest of the piece-in whichever language it might be-i firmly believe that we must try our best to not maul the language....of course some mistakes are natural because we are humans after all but we should not run amok without a care for syntax & grammar....if i knew a blog was going to be of this kind,i would certainly refrain from reading it.

My intention behind this thread was not to change others but merely to ask for others' opinions...it is not my habit to thrust my opinions on others,but i think asking for their opinions does not tantamount to that.

Yes i know one can write whatever one wants on his/her blog.

I agree with you in toto.Nevertheless bloggers including me tend to be impulsive and rush to publish the post .On a second reading of the post many deficiencies come to  notice.To be honest , whenever I come across such mistakes in my post at a later date, I make it a point to edit and correct them.I correct incorrect sentences ,spelling mistakes ,but I never change the content already published or delete sentences .Of late I am trying to make it mistake free .

I agree with you in toto.Nevertheless bloggers including me tend to be impulsive and rush to publish the post .On a second reading of the post many deficiencies come to  notice.To be honest , whenever I come across such mistakes in my post at a later date, I make it a point to edit and correct them.I correct incorrect sentences ,spelling mistakes ,but I never change the content already published or delete sentences .Of late I am trying to make it mistake free .

It is true -we do tend to make mistaks but at least we try not to.

Kirti,antara,TF& Madhur --all this discussion about current authors leaves me rather dejected because i only know the likes of ****ens,Hardy,hugo,maugham,Dumas,,Danielle steele,Sydney Sheldon,ALberto Moravia,Albert Camus,Daphne-du maurier,Marie Corelli,Alexander Solyzhnytsin etc....but how can i ever forget Enid who first roused in me this hunger for Eng literature....

When i go through your discussion i realize how much i am missing...there is only so much i can do in a day...in fact i purposely avoid fiction on IB because it will take a lot of time.

Well enough catharsis for a day....by the way my spellings of the authors' names might be wrong...it's been so loooong.

@the fool

Atleast its a start :) even if 1% read other books,its 1% gained

So when someone asks me for a book by CHetan bhagat, I smile because maybe he/she is a new convert ....Sydney sheldon can wait untill they have discovered the joys of reading:)

@Kirti...hehe.I get your point, and to some point your pain. I had a similar experience with beleive it or not "God of small things"...Starting was fabulous but after a while it was a drab for me, I finally hated the book :)

I am not discounting you or other people who like well written novels ..But my point was that Well written novels already have a good platform and an avid fan base,they have awards like Bookers ,are covered by international magazines 

But novelists like Chetan Bhagat and Ravinder singh are targetting a segment that consists of many people who are

--Not avod readers

--Not a very Loyal readers

They use language that can potentially be written by anyone, a lot of people tried to copy Chetan Bhagat but failed. In a way ,they are in an exceptionally competitive market where the only thing that can click is good word of mouth.They never get center stage in literary or art feststivals ,many critiques wont want to be found dead reading their novels:) 

So in a way they are also doing a tough job and many a times people don't give them enough credit for that.:)

Agreed that everyone has their own taste ,and opinions . I don't think i can ever read Arundhati again :)

What i like about Likes of chetan Bhagats is that His Books became the First book many people read ,and that is a great thing.He got people started :)

Yeah - But I fear for many people it is the last book too. I haven't seen too many of the core Chetan Bhagat loyalists moving on to anything else.

@Madhur Ji... he he i agree too. my friend was telling me just yesterday about a guy whose fav book was a chetan bhagat but didnt know who was the author of Harry Potter. :P :P he said it was the first time he was hearing that name :P :P to people like me, jaw dropping was a natural course of reaction :P :P

so i agree with what you say... he definitely got people started. but the question is... will they move on to better books??? 

i mean yaar... HARRY POTTER hai yaar. even my PARENTS know about it... :P :P so it almost a PHYSICAL pain when people talk like this... i mean... HARRY POTTER. :P :P

I am floored Subho by your deeeep analysis...we have all had our say & i am sure all will feel vindicated....so is it time to wind up this thread ,or does anyone else want to have his say ? i think i will hold my tongue because diplomacy is not my forte & i don't want to annoy any more friends...we are all still friends aren't we ?

everyone is having an amiable discussion here Indu... as bloggers we all respect our fellow-bloggers and different tastes and thoughts are bound bring up SOME conflict. i dont think there is any need for you to be diplomatic or something... that would be highly resented i guess... and vindication??? where does that even come from on a INDI forum???

Several different strains to this thread that I wanted to add to.

1. True and great art is typically not popular art. Jibanananda Das and James Joyce are examples from our times. Those who find great literature in Bhagat are unlikely to have read Seth or Ghosh. Once they do, it is unlikely they will find value in Bhagat. That does not necessarily mean Bhagat is not a good writer. To give an example from pop literature, James Hadley Chase is great, but he ain't no Ludlum. The same applies to film makers like Johar and Bhandarkar. They are really not in the business of making films that are high on creativity, but films that will capture the imagination of the masses. I don't think they will succeed if they start paying attention to the grammar of Tarkovsky or the punctuation of Truffaut. They have evolved their own language, syntax and grammar, and once they find something that works, they replicate it again and again - James Hadley Chase or Swapan Kumar ishtyle. Makes for good cinema, but... :)

2. Much of the, IMHO, very relevant discussion in this thread resorts to a style that would have purists raising their eyebrows ;). However, that has not made the discussion pheeka in any way. It just goes to show that effective use of language comes from using language that is vibrant and dynamic, relevant and contemporary, and clear and concise.

3. When I was setting out to build a career in writing, one of the things that struck me was that one out of five of the Indian blogs listed in most popular blog directories were written in atrocious English. If it were not for the presence of some very fine writing by others, I would perhaps never have set out blogging after seeing that. As I stuck around the blogosphere, I realized that people blog for a variety of reasons. Some for advertising revenue, some to share their ideology, and some for therapy.

For each of these purposes, there is a difference in the value that should be attached to the use of propah English. Darn, if I write utter garbage but fortify it with SEO and keyword research and it draws in the traffic, how does the correctness of language matter? Or take gadget update blogs or commodity trading tips blogs, I am sure most of us have encountered them - do you find the grammar objectionable? Chances are it didn't even register, because you weren't looking outfor it.

4. Blogging is therapeutic to many, both bloggers and blog readers, myself included. I often fail to disguise my passion for what I believe in under the cloak of professional persuasive writing. Sometimes, grammar doesn't listen to me. At other times, the keyboard doesn't. Like may of you, Ifeel better when my pen gleans my teaming mind to a certain level of satisfaction, and at those times, correctness of expression is often the last of my worries. However, this should not be treated either as license for poor language or a reason for not attending to grammar and punctuation.

5. I like reading language that is respectful of the gift of language. I like to think of my writing as an expression of my gratitude for the strength that comes from being able to communicate. We are the only species that can articulate our thoughts in such precise and yet varied ways. When I think of the miracle of language, Ifeel obliged to polish my offering. I wouldn't offer soiled fruits at the altar of my gods, why would I then want to do that with language and with my readers. I feel stylistic devices such as SMS language and regionalized Inglish are fine as an act of choice. Like Deepak says, it is not possible to say with certainty that the children of tomorrow will not be learning that in their kindergarten classrooms or that correct usage of language will not become the symbol of protest in the years to come.

6. The blogosphere is perhaps the last bastion of how the gods of all religions wanted men and women to be. Freedom, love, tolerance, acceptance, encouraging and helping each other, sharing our intellectual resources, sharing our ideas, our hopes and our fears. It is also nonintrusive, in the sense, you get to choose what you want to read. It seems petty to make the use of language, that too, one specific language which has been *******ized more than any other language, the criterion for the value of a blog, blogpost or blogger.

7. The longer I live with the gooseflesh that poorly written blogposts give me, the more I keep encountering such posts. I choose to let go of the gooseflesh. Takes just one psychological keystroke.

PS: Thanks, Indu for initiating this volatile yet fascinating thread!

Deepak i agree that languages change over time-that is how Sanskrit gave way to so many Indian languages...yes English was different centuries ago & will be different after centuries ;but we are living NOW in this century & if we go according to it's present form & structure ;we shall be able to express ourselves in a much better way & more beautifully too....good language does not in any way restrict giving & sharing of ideas ;rather it aids it .

About perfection-of course we are all imperfect ...as you say nobody is perfect but these very imperfect humans have come up with so many masterpieces...let them be, they belong to an elite class but even here in IB i have come across so many good writers that it is a pleasure to read them--& i have only just started...being short of time so many writers i have not been able to read....so don't take this plea..i too am v.v.imperfect but the purpose of human life is to learn & evolve...of course this is only my view & i don't claim to be right always.

of all your comments, this one is a wise piece.See as you said, we have to evolve over a period of time,how can we evovle ? by making loads and loads of mistakes, but when you don't apprecuate their learning, at least don't depreciate them for their mistakes.There are plenty of people, who have good talents, good thoughts, good ideas but just because they don't know grammar, is that true that they are not great minds ?

after all English is an Alien language, we are not at all speaking our very own language perfectly then how can you or me expect everyone to speak English perfectly ?After all no one is perfect.I can understand you, you dislike posts from the people who uses some abnormal grammar, in that case you can just avoid reading their blog, why bring them to forum ?you are not pin pointing anyone, i make lot of grammar mistakes, as i see this post, i consider this one is for me and about me, it will be hard to see.My sincere request, kindly check for the good things in a blog, ignore that grammar part if you cant read along, ignore that blog.AS you said, grammar is essential, when you are addressing world or when you are writing something professionally, here i am not writing for money, i am writing for my self satisfaction for that grammar is least essential...

To be honest, I actually like it when people point out whatever changes that need to be made to a piece of writing by me. I find it encouraging, since that person has obviously read whatever I have written. :D

Antara i think you would love this.

PS: this is ONLY for Antara. Bhagat lovers are NOT to see this!! :P :P 

About the Bhagat issue. I thought Two States was entertaining. But R2020 was not even PLAUSIBLE! There was no flow...nada...I can cite so many grammar issues that it is ridiculous. One night @ the call centre was silly and amateur.

My issue is the when people talk about Indian writers who write in English, they shout out the name is Chetan Bhagat. For heaven's sake, what did Vikram Seth do wrong? Or Amitav Ghosh?  Or any other writer who writes a little better.

Bhagat is entertaining...upto a point. After that it becomes the same old thing.

As in, you can watch romantic comedy films and enjoy them but you can't watch them ALL THE TIME. Good movies which have substance have to be watched too.

There are so many Indian writers who write in beautiful language but sadly are not given enough publicity and instead a book like R2020 becomes a best seller. So yes, I do kind of feel it is upsetting.

writes a LITTLE better?? writes a HELL LOT better.

Amitav Ghosh or Vikram Seth ki baat to chor. "Indian Youth" i dont think, wants to read them :P

since the talk is about Bhagat let me take another example. his genre in 'fun-filled-message-giving-stories' isnt it??(i know there would be many raised eye-brows over this) then why does his name pop up every time why such a genre is suggested?? has any of his readers even READ "The inscrutable Americans"?????? why isnt ANURAG MATHUR or ARAVIND ADIGA mentioned when "Indian Writers" are mentioned???

they aim for the YOUTH too isnt it?? they aim for the people like us too!!

I would vote for The inscrutable Americans ANYTIME over say... R2020 or One night at call centre.

And i agree Antara. the only reason i suggest GOOD books(like i mentioned in my rant last page :P) to people is for the reason- chalo Bhagat padhe, hase, entertain hue. now read something that would touch your heart and remain with you forever. 

and talking of publicity... tune dekha, the add of R2020???? i saw it through some blog in Indiblogger only.i wish i remembered to take its link... IT WAS SHOCKING. If his books need that sort of CHEAP publicity to reach out to his readers then.... i dont have ANYTHING to say. i am planning to take sanyas from reading books :P

but then people who disagree would say he promoted his book in way it would reach people... if this the way people are reached, then shame on them!!!

and ohhh i WISH i could get hold of that video!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with you Leo. If our readers find some fault in our writing, they have every right to say so. but then even we have our rights to accept what is ok to us. and truly when we are writing something personal, perfect grammar is not possible... especially when people like me rant :P

@LEO: well said !

@Kirti: very true, how can one expect grammar when we are abusing him/her ?? hehe LOL !after all we are bloggers to vent and voice our opinions. 

@Deepak LOL :P exactly. like i always rant when i have to let off steam over one person or the other(ofcourse the ones who dont READ my blog!!) and voicing out our opinions?? hell yeah. we always do that! :P 

I write for the passion. However, I do try to put it in as much correct language as I can. No one is perfect, like Deepak says.

I remember when I started out blogging and writing in general, I used to have horrible grammar. Sometimes, I still do, as I found out when someone reviewed my work. Whatever that person had said, it was to the dot. Reading my work with that correct grammar, it made it feel so much more beautiful than it was before. So agree with you that good presentation does improve the post.

However, not every blogger looks at grammar and presentation on a very serious level. Some are personal blogs written in a diary fashion, just to put a thought on virtual paper so it can ease the mind at times, or maybe even give the blog's author more joy; and you can't go there expecting perfect grammar. There will be smileys, sms language etc. And even if we tell them that their grammar is not right, to improve on it, they might not like it.

One can always comment once to inform the writer that he/she could attempt to word it better. But if it's not something that blogger wishes to do, you can check the blog to see if a post is worth commenting n if you're comfy with it, do so, or else just be silent. I think even in such blogs as you mention, sometimes there would be a post or two that are worth a comment.

@ animesh- by the way, hordes of thanks for that helpful tip....see where it has led us ? I expect similar help from you in future too.

My pleasure Indu and I am loving this discussion as well. Nice thread I must say

Deepak we are only discussing whether bloggers should aim at correct usage of language or just flow with their ideas unmindful of grammar.... & using correct language or taking care of your style while writing is not tantamount to using filters....in fact it adds to the beauty & readability of the piece....this is not about you or any other person in particular & the intention has not been to insult anyone....one more thing-if any language in the world had not been properly presented & the syntax laid down;no meaningful conversation would have been possible---like if i say" vah jata hai" then it is clear that a boy or man goes...if i were to garble grammar how would you understand?

Madam...I must tell you one thing, do you think ENGLISH is spoken and written by the same way like people of centuries ago did ? A BIG NO !Do you think centuries later people will use the same way we use ? UNCERTAIN ! Grammar is essential but not a factor to decide the quality of blogging, we are here to share right ? or are we here for writing articles in new York times or Hindu ? We are not professionals and importantly we are HUMANS... we will commit mistake and we are committing !

@Kirti,Antara& animesh --very interesting discussion there...a good start to a Sunday.....i value your talk about the language girls,both of you are so well informed-lol.....i think if a character speaks faulty English in accordance with his character then it does not pinch at all....like animesh also said that a villager can't be shown as speaking perfect English....on a similar strain,i have written a story in the form of a diary written by a schizophrenic....it is just like jottings of a mental patient....so naturally,the language is erroneous...i shall publish it soon....when i do;tell me what you think of it .

No one is perfect, then how can you expect a language to be a perfect one which comes from an imperfect person ?????Purpose of language is to convey the message and understand the message, what the hell these grammars and good guy shadow gonna do ??there are people who speak their minds without any filters, if you don't like them... you can ignore reading their works, instead of insulting them as poor in laguage and impervect in language ! 

Disclaimer: I am usually on the guilty side here, i tend to make a lot of mistakes and spelling errors.

Now my answer:

I don't write mainly to win over an audience, I love audience but again the real reason i write is to convey a thought. Many a times i do not plan to write,I write as soon as inspiration strikes me ,and when you write while you are thinking ,you tend to make mistakes(Rather I tend to make mistakes).

Now I can spend time correcting them to an extent that they are grammatically perfect or correct them to a point that the idea is conveyed.I choose latter

Talking about Chetan Bhagan and i too had a love story , when you mentioned a few lines from the book that you hated and also how you had a big fight with that guy on FB, i beleive you forgot that he was not a prolific writer.He wanted to convey a feeling and he succeded

When you talk about real life,trust me people are much more like the way Chetan Bhagat decribes rather than any other celebrated indian authors .

What is a Book? A collection of mind boggling metaphors,absolutely good grammer and tight story line or an Idea ,a thought process a story told from the eyes of the author.

I have not read I too had a love story but heard about people reading it in one night using cellphone lights,just because they could not leave it.That too people who do not read much and can hardly finsih 2,3 chapters.i bought 5 point someone at a train station and was half through till the time i was home.I read it even when boarding the train,it was damn captivating.

There must be something.To be very frank reading the lines you quoted

"he was beautiful, her hair fell on her ears, etc etc etc. and then he writes- she laughed. she had a lot of teeth"

I recollected my own first crush,these were possibly the exact thoughts i had when i had a crush .I was not thinking in terms of "When she swayed her black hair,they hid her beautiful ears as if black  clouds covering the sun on a beach":P

I was thinking..waah kya baal hain...Thats all,My mind did not go beyond that point. I never was planning to read that book but reading the exact same things that you wrote,i am tempted to read it now.That guy speaks my language.I was like that .Poetry and metaphors flow from these very basic RAW feelings.

Also when you say best books: There are 2 definitions of best books,what most people like and what critiques like. People like Ravinder and chetan bhagat won the category 1.And that's what mattered to them.They will never win Booker prize because critiques hate them.

Its the same argument between Karan Johar and maybe Madhur Bhandarkar Films.Everyone makes movies to please their target audience.Karan Johar is not aiming to win an oscar with K3G and madhur bhandarkar wants to explore real life stories.

What is right? Both

I now write poetry and try to keep it as simple as possible,using the bare minimum tools of language.I am tempted to sometimes throw in some Buzzwords,some good grammer ,some imitations from great authors but generally end up hating it.

Dont get me wrong,i am not against any famous authors, I am a fan of likes of rabindranath tagore and jane austen ,they mastered the craft of story telling but so did people like Chetam bhagat,they may not be as Critically acclaimed as many of their peers but they told stories in a way that people wanted to listen and I respect them for that

These are my 2 cents

@Madhur Ji I understand what you are trying to say here and i respect your viewpoint. but what i said was entirely MY OWN view. i said it at the very beginning that i am definitely not a good judge of what is good and what is bad. simply, it is a matter of perspective.

I never said i dislike ALL Chetan Bhagat. even i found some of them pretty good. he has a knack of reaching to the common people, just because he is ENTERTAINING, and i was no exception to that :P he has excellent humor and ofcourse, sarcasm always works with me... i have read all of his books to date. but honestly, after a good read like Five point someone and Two states, the recent was a depressing disappointment.

 and relating to Ravinder, to be very frank, I COULDNT RELATE WITH WHAT HE WROTE. it didnt and would never TOUCH MY HEART. and for me, when i read a book and it doesnt touch me, i start being critical and my mind points out to me all the mistakes! call me naive but thats how my system works and i honestly cant help that :P 

and ofcourse i didnt forget he wasnt a PROLIFIC writer! but ALL writers after their DEBUT novel are just like that! NOT prolific. Aravind Adiga. I never thought he was a prolific writer too! and tell you what, his white tiger touched my heart MORE than I too had a love story ANYDAY.(though they are completely different genres but i mentioned it since we were talking about the WAY authors express their feelings)

and when it comes to him conveying his 'feeling', he was writing a tragic love story wasnt he?? if people liked the essence of his story then why did they flinch back from a MARY WASTMACOTT novel?? why did they flinch from a "Thousand splendid suns" when i suggested it to them??? 

tragic?? oh YES. and conveying of feelings?? i think these books convey a hell lot better than his novel ANYTIME. but then, that is solely MY opinion.

i dont blame people for liking something I didnt like. no, that would be totally wrong on my part; but when people ask for MY suggestion, a Khaled Hosseini is what i will hand to them anytime. or a Meg Cabot if they are THAT intent on reading LOVE stories :P

and honestly Madhur Ji, i never handled R2020 or I too had a love story more than say- 3 hours. I finished R2020 on the way from KGP to Kolkata(and i didnt talk for the entire day :P) I read or rather try to read all the books at the same pace. so the TIME factor in judging what I like and dont doesnt work. 

and talking about DEFINITONS of best books, i dont think you can categorize them in just two ways. language is ever changing, so are people's thoughts, their judgements and of course the writing style of authors too. you never know who might spring up with a genius tomorrow and win the hearts of all book readers- irrespective of who is a critique and who is a common guy.

and maybe Bhagat HAS mastered the art of story telling. I wouldnt know. you must be thinking i have no right in trashing other's books when i dont even have the QUALIFICATIONS to criticise them. but of the books I have read till now, i can name numerous authors who captured the art of story telling better than the authors in question. and telling stories in a way PEOPLE want to listen?? i think you are only looking at the MAJORITY. you have forgotten people like me and Antara who would rebel against such books anytime. WE come under the category of PEOPLE too dont we? dont forget us :P 

when a book is hyped for you so much that you cant wait to get your hands on it and then it turns out a total waste of your time, you would be as bitter as me :P I too had a love story happened in similar case with me. ALL my classmates were simply RAVING about that book. but right from the first page it was a disappointement me.

and mistakes? as Deepak said, none of us is perfect. we all commit b****ers in writing(i do it ALL the time) but it is upto your READERS to judge whether it is excusable or not. But I am a reader too and simply, i dont find some books to my taste.

(dont suggest me NOT to read them then, because to judge even 0.001% what is good and what is bad, you need to read ALL sorts of books and thats what i try to do :) :P)