Foreign Degrees are they worth it ? debate
I wonder whether foreign degrees are really useful whether in MBA, IT, Engineering or any other field for that matter. Just imagine shelling out 20 to 50 lakhs for a certificate without guarantee of jobs abroad. There are no placement services like in Indian colleges nor there is unlimited extended Visa facility for hunting jobs abroad. Very few lucky ones manage to get job abroad with lower salaries and ultimately end up being frustrated. Rather than going abroad and studying it is better to invite visiting faculty from abroad which will work out cheaper and conduct study tour to foreign industries for a month in the field of specialisation. This would work out much cheaper and more relavant considering the cost benefit. If during the industrial visit if the propective employer finds a bright student they would be tempted to offer the job. I believe all this can be ensured within 1/4th of the cost. ( Max 5 lakhs including paying the industry concerned 1 lakh per month per student ) Currently this amount i suspect is siphoned off by the counsellors and agents. If a prudent parent invests 20 to 50 lakhs on a good trading business, one can establish his or her ward in a particular line. Debate guys
Reason: add
I have done my graduation and PG abroad and I recommend everyone who has means to go to study abroad. Yes I agree now that getting jobs abroad will be difficult, and these degrees really dont have much value in Indian job market, which is not good for someone with limited resources. And studying in India makes much more sense.
But there is a huge difference in the quality of education there and in India. I have people working from IIMs in my office and I can tell you I am much smarter, well-read and inteeligent than those book worms. They dont even know how to give a proper job interview (sorry not all are like that but honestly you'd be surprised the quality of products even the IIM-A produces; it was shocking to me too).
The focus there is more on practical stuff and education here is more theoretical. It might work for some people, but its not something which will produce a leader or entrepreneur.
terming the foreign degree as toilet paper is not good. if that is the case then why thousands of parent are sending their children in forien country for education. I gone through the comments amd found non of the comments of bhuktbhogi. All are hear say stories. Beside fee the quality of education in western country is far better. Here in India maximum Medium grade professional colleges are run by politician which are below standard in all aspect whether it is faulty or infrastructure. These maximum universties got recognisation from by paying bribe. In India if one to do MBBS in private college which doest not have proper infrasture but charge some where 35-40 Lakh where same degree in world reputed university from China same degree can be some where 20-25 lakh. So all degree of foreign university are not toilet paper
Do let me know where I've said that ;). If you think about it, I haven't associated any foreign degree in particular as toilet degrees.
Degrees from colleges with no established recognised from their government/nationalised education institutions are toilet degrees- irrespective of which country it is from. After that, it all varies on the college's reputation, value and long term career path. They are made for those to impress and pull in those desperate people who want to throw away a money so that they can hang a piece of paper on the wall- irrespective of the country and their lifestyle. All middle-high class do it. We have a lot of them over here as well, let alone foreign countries.
But fooling the people here is much easier. A lot of parents/student don't research properly if its recognised/private or not as long as it has a fancy name on it that gives an idea to others that they have studied from abroad. They spend 20-25 lakhs, go there and realize that way of life is expensive and they cant burden their parents so they work as waiters and all. That's not really a problem, but when you're taking so much pain to come back to your country in a false hope you will get a great job and then you get (by their standards) mediocre jobs, they're depressed. They try to get a foreign job. Nothing happens, so they do something and end up working in UAE/Dubai or something like that. Do note: I said "a lot". Not everyone does it, I hope you will see that next time :).
Ram Singh generally all these foreign education which is promoted in India is generally through education counsellors and so called agents or franchisees. I believe around 30 to 40% are knocked off by them in name of facilitating air travel, visa arrangements, bank loan processing and accomodation etc. If 20 lakhs is total investment almost 8 lakhs is gone in this fashion. The quality of education is questionable when you pay for it. In case it is a merit or scholarship seat than it is welcome because genuinely the college has recognised or wants to retain its standards. Even than Accomodation and airfares may not be taken care. Ultimately after one passes out only 5 to 10% are lucky to get decent paying jobs abroad, and in when they return to India it is frustration galore for the parents and the ward. That is the issue one has to grapple with by 90% who seek foreign degrees.
Suffice to say we have lot of enough idiots in this to fall for this everytime. Tch. We always fall for the oldest trick in the book.
Overseas education can be beneficial but not in all circumstances. For example, India has some of the top IT universities in the world, so it would be silly to go to the US for an education UNLESS you were seeking a specific degree like the one offered by Sun Microsystems. In that case, you would want to go to California. Australia has the top marine biology university so it would benefit you to go there if you wanted a degree in either marine biology or oceanography. India is also behind in Forensics degrees so going to other countries would be helpful there. For things like banking and service industries you are better off getting a degree in the country you want to spend your life in because the standards vary greatly by country. Business degrees also should be obtained in the country you want to do business in and then maybe get international business degrees by splitting your time between India and any other westernized country. The only other benefit to getting an education overseas is the networking benefits. If you manage to get and keep contacts with the people you interact with it can lead to jobs all over the world and the opportunity of opening up a new branch of someone elses company in India or even winning outsourcing contracts to boost your career here.
Frankly india has no top IT colleges in india. The IIT doesnt even rank in the Top 100 (universities let alone college) in the world. So if u want some really top notch education you can go to outside uni. But if you see the FEE and job Payment equation in India, it has better options.
Umeshji, very nice thread. I was in the same thinking from some days. At least in case of Tech or Engg. field, I feel our courses are better than foriegn one. Still I don't have experience of forign degree...:(, so can't say anything confirm.
Good thing about Indian banks (atleast state bank and such bank types, not talking about private) is that they give education based on your previous qualifications and which college you're joining. If its a good college and your passed records suggest that you can pass out with flying colours and the degree is worth it, you got the loan. If its a very good college I believe they offer lesser (not that much, but yeah) interests too.
We need more engineers. But we need REAL engineers- not those types who get into engineering just to get a management/banking/finance job.
Mayur thanks for the compliment, i appreciate your indepth dissection of the issue with tinge of humour.
I feel the education system is becoming unaffordable to students and their parents in India. If one has to borrow 20 lakhs at 13% interest burden the repayment would amount to more than 50 lakhs. The known source of income for middle class parents or prospective employment after completion of professional degree in India for Engineers it is 40 k plus and Business management it is 50 K plus currently.
If one looks at Return on investment than EMI itself would work around 40 K plus, what is left as savings is left to the imagination of the borrower. Secondly i feel it is fuelling corruption, Finally education has become fully commercial. If one is prudent with 25 lakhs investment a good trading business can be established.
If you're paying fees worth 20 lakhs, its common sense that the jobs that are getting out of such degrees/colleges is of high income- very good for starters. How is it a burden in that case? A child passes out of the college, gets a good job for starters, I think educational loans give you minimum 6 months of relief from the time of graduation- or something like that. So if the child is getting that degree, parents are getting that loan- the child can pay off that loan from his own salary. What are you guys trying to say: the child can't pay for his own educational loan that's benefitting him in long term? Even if you catch 2-3 years, its not a burden. How can it be a burden unless the degree doesn't fetches good jobs/money???? If it doesn't, why do parents spend 20 lakhs like an idiot??? There are some parents who save money throughout their lives. I am pretty sure for such people they can spare off atleast....5-10 lakhs for 3-5 years of education of their child?? The child is generating good money and will generate a lot of money as he progresses? I am sorry, am I the only 1 here who thinks that this is a burden? If the degree is useless and if parents forced a child to do something he couldn't, that's the parent's fault. People have a common tendency to blame the system if they have shelled out money without applying brains and doing research.
Hello Roshan, I am not questioning that the ward will not be able to pay off the loan, but with the current job scenario, the salaries are diving southwards, i afraid the jobs what they are getting will result in salaries lower than their EMI. In some cases the ward are likely to default that is when the parent may have to sell off their collateral security to pay of the EMI or loan. It has happened in some cases. If one gets seat on merit or scholarship abroad, that is the best thing to happen. 
Otherwise none of the high paying or spending foreign degrees are worth it.
Umeshji, you are absolutely right that education in india has become unaffordable. Yes the fees of private colleges are insane. But according to me india is still balanced in the fees and job payment equation. Better the college more the fee but better the coll also better payment. Like my college fee 16k per year for BE in IT engg(well it is gov coll and in GOA everything gov provided is insanely cheap, i even get all the years books to use for free). And if i pass all the years by keeping a 60% average i will still get a ~20-25k job. So i will be able to pay off my education fee in less than 4months maybe. And if we take look at other degrees like MBA, my brother is doing MBA and his full fee is like 4lakhs. He got loan instantly. He is confident that he will get a job with minimum 6-7lakh pakage so he will pay off the fee in under a year. Also mostly all the degrees india pay off the fees under a year.
The real problem is for people studing in foreign universities. Like in USA it will cost 40-50lakhs to get a good degree. You can easily pay it off if your degree is imp like engg, pharmaceutics or financial sector. But if the degree is in some absurd field like humanities, literature, archeology or some other fields than god help you. I once met a man on the internet who after wasting some 50lakhs got a phd in "history of black revolution" and now he cant find a job related to the field. These was one of the main issue in the occupy wallstreet protest. Well indians are sensible in that they mostly go to foreign countries to get important degrees like in engg or med or other financial courses. Those who go for humanitarian studies go on scholorships provided by indian gov.
So i would say the state in india is still a bit stable but it can soon take a turn for worse if we dont put some limitations on the private colleges in india.
I never heard an MBA from a recognised college- a really good college- usually the ones where you end up spending 3-6lakh for entire degree period fetching a job for 20-25k only. NMIMS students itself get minimum 7-11 lakh per annum by average (but their standards) via college placements. If you're following the trends, there's a very insignificant hike in pay package between the passouts of this term and the previous one- but its not falling down. You might want to check up on that. If its a useless college charging so much then that's a stale mate. why would parents so much money on a TOILET degree???
@soc
Absolutely right, today mostly all the MBA people from good college get a 5 lakh package minimum.
Typically a degree in the country you want to work in helps in lot of ways. But the college has to be a reputed one and also in a country where there are good job opportunities. One of my friends went and did MBA in Belgium. The college was a good one. But Belgium is not a great place for jobs, especially durng recession. And in India, no one gave a damn to a Belgian MBA. He finally got a 10 K salesman job here.
Similarly one of my relative went to Russia for MBBS and came back and started boasting. I believe medical education in Russia is below Indian standard but still he managed to get rid of the stigma because of deep pockets. He is now well settled after being rescued by well wishers.
You are the man Umeshji. You are the only person who starts sensible threads on indiblogger, and i am grateful to you for that.
Let me first start by the general opinion about education in our country. My gradfather:- Get education to make family proud, My grandmother:- No use of education, just look after what your ancestors have left for u, My father:- Get education to get good job, My mother:- get education or you wont get educated wife.
My honest opinion of indian education system is "GARBAGE". All the syllabus is outdated (like for our subj on "basic IT" we were using a book published in 1998, where a 10gb hardrive was some kind of god made equipment). We get no practical knowledge, and what we get is of nonsense (like in workshop classes we had to forge equipments and the reason the sir gave "well IT people need equipments like srew driver so u may need this knowledge, as if we were gonna forge the srew driver everytime i have to use it). If we seriously, don't make some changes well god save india then.
Now talking about foreign eduction that too i think is useless. Though i appreciate the teaching techniques of the foreign unerversities, still i think it is pretty useless. Because if you are really interested in what you are learning, you will master it no matter from where you get the knowledge. You could get all the books published around the world instantly nowadays. All the knowledge of the world is lying around you, begging to make use of it. But NO, we want to struggle our whole life to get a piece of paper which says u r a educated person. Do hell with it.
this reminds me of a famous person, who said I pay the fees to the university for my son's education, but he gets all his teachings from his friends.
Pramod you sow he reaps Lolz. As parents we are helpless, one of my friends son wanted to be a pilot. It was a passion for which dad had to sponsor or stand guarantor for 20 lakhs loan. He had to undertake due diligence, hope the airline industry picks up.
By the way, there are handful of individuals who work for computer level RnD work who haven't received formal education about it. Its a fact. As far as RnD in consumer electronics goes, many of them hire designers who have basic electronic skills and they earn very good money. A lot of them end up knowing about engineering and RnD know-how eventually. Especially computers. A lot of people who have found out stuff like hacking, jailbreaking, overclocking, bios forcing, cross bios flashing, Voltage modifications are the guys who are doing this well before getting a technical degree (or not getting one). Ofcourse, getting your work to be known is tough but hey! Which work isn't?
IIPM model is a luxury model along with some placement opportunities. I believe a decent and credible college can offer at 50% of the cost. It is sad that IIM's too charge a bomb for their degrees nowerdays, being a govt run institution.
Yeah but the paygrade for IIMs is substancial and you get easy education loans for IIMs at special rate and covers about 70-85% approx. I think its SBI but the IIM's paygrade is high that after passing out the student can pay it off very easily in 4-6 months. Even if you look at NMIMS, Jamanlal bajaj and all, you get pretty good pay packages. People I know who did management from MET with 1-2 year of work got about 60-80k paygrade in average, same goes for welingkar. Paying the fees is not the issue if you are able to get through these colleges. We're not talking about our well-established college here though.Many colleges in foreign countries are not government recognised. You'll see them around in educational expos and all. People who cannot get into a normal college- or don't want to- go to a firangi college. Many don't care, as long as its an international degree. that's why we have such lame colleges using names of unheard colleges from other countries. You'll never see NYU or state universities doing international educational expo- because real studies who want to get the most of it knows which college is which.
Even Dalmiya college gets placement from TCS in mumbai, so the overall placement scenario is quite good. The salary package of around 50K is guaranteed even in the worst of times. But repaying in 4 to 6 months is not possible Roshan. EMI @ 3 K per month per lakh works out 45 k per month for 15 lakhs loan dear Roshan
IIM grads get far better jobs than TCS and far higher paygrades, even if you see the average paygrade. I am not talking about NMIMS and all that. That is a different scene, but you still get good pay package that you can pay without much effort within 2 years.
All grads do not have practical knowledge, hands-on experience, etc.- except if you have worked before joining a college. I don't see the point of this thread TBH. Umeshji answered his own questions which seals it:
Just imagine shelling out 20 to 50 lakhs for a certificate without guarantee of jobs abroad.
Hello Roshan, people have different takes on the subject matter, some want foreign degrees because parents feel that they have provided the best education. Secondly the herd mentality of a classmate going abroad and he does not to miss out etc. I want to elicit different responses, it is crucial for correcting our mindset on foreign education.
Hello DS, i believe it is better to revamp Indian education system inviting foreign faculties and get exposure for a month in practical internship or apprenticeship or summer training whatever term one wants to designate. It will cost maximum Rs 5 lakhs including air tickets, visa, stay and paying the industry too.
Not really sure how people can justify 10-20 lakhs on a toilet degree. Even parents of the rich kids won't spend that much unless the college has a reputation- a real one.
People who have a lot of money are usually the ones who think a lot of its usefulness before investing- unless 1 is from a spoilt useless background. Usually its the middle-to-upper-middle-class-ish who go for Toilet degrees. That's why colleges like IIPM earn lot of money. As long as the college that you're going to (including international ones) are government body recognised (relevant one) and has a decent track record of employment, provided you can cough up the money its all good.
Agreed Pramod that Indian education particularly professional degrees need a revamp, but what about the craze for foreign degrees without a guarantee or placement opportunity at those universities. I can imagine the plight of parents who shell out nearly 25 lakhs by borrowing at interest rate of 13% and can t get a decent job for their ward. Just imagine the repayment burden which amounts to almost 40 k per month for 7 years.
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